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Today we're talking about Dandelion
Gum by Black Moth Super Rainbow.

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Kyle, I just wanted to maybe check in.

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How are things going?

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I'm holding space, and
by space I mean the void.

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Hold my one finger, Cliff.

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I'm holding space for this moment.

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This podcast is not live streamed But
it is nearly always recorded in such a

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way where the time frame that you are
listening To this episode in we still

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share the general context of whatever
your brain is doing today At the same

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moment that we are talking to each
other and I don't think I have ever

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felt so excited for such a great fit
for a bad moment as this particular

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record gives us the opportunity to do.

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Not only because, well, by the time
this drops, everything could be

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more terrible than it is but things

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Probably won't be better.

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no, no, probably not and things
are in the running for, uh, capital

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W worst of all time already.

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So.

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It's a hard moment to exist.

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And threw this podcast.

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love and support each other through our
love and appreciation for this music and

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craft and so many of our episodes remind
us that Invariably by paying attention

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to music in even a somewhat serious way
We are always going to unearth deeply

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serious topics because music is made
by people in the same time and reality

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That all the other crazy shit that's
ever happened Happened and as such we

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end up lining up episodes even just
in the last three before this one.

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We have like Religious deconstruction
of paramour and what it means to be like

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truly accepting of other indifferent
people We have grace jones's night

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clubbing coming from a very particular
moment in time and a very particular

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archetype of person Both of which are
right back in another loop in this

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moment in time of Uh, having to be
less open and excited about who you

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are because the people who want to
clamp down on you for being different

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have become emboldened once again.

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And then after that episode, we talk about
the non glorification of Project Pat of

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true and actual 90s hood life in Memphis.

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Like, we have a good time on
this episode and on this podcast.

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But.

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That can all just be a lot and I'm just
delighted to present to people today A

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bunch of fucking bullshit, by, by some
goobers, with some vintage synthesizers,

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who know how to create a really nice hook,
and we can just calm the fuck down, and

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remember that music can also do other
things than just make us think about

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the anxiety inducing, intense things
that we have to go through every day.

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And I am stoked to just take on
that angle, for a little bit.

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Today with you.

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Chat GPT, summarize
everything Cliff just said.

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Hey man, got a joint?

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Because you need a lot of them.

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I agree that this thing is a bomb.

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and there are words from a couple
of folks that I think summarize, uh,

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the product summary on the outside of
the prescription bottle of the cell.

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so if things are feeling kind of
heavy on you right now, and maybe

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you just want like some pop, you just
want to vibe out, but like the pop.

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Fair of the radio and
whatever isn't your deal.

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What about an artist who, quote, Takes
trippiness and dreaminess to an all new

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level With the futuristic music people
had hoped to listen to 20 and 30 years ago

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And that time to hear it is now Future pop
for now, people Today That sounds great!

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I would like that I would like to imagine
being in a different timeline With good

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pop music and the world not falling apart
Um, but if that is not your foot, if

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you need a, if you need a little higher
concentration dosage of your prescription,

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how about this from Jennifer Kelly?

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If pop matters, dandelion gum is one
of those records that makes you feel

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like you're high, even when you're not
like you're on the verge of shambolic

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visions, even if you're taking out
the trash, like there's an ineffable

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order to the universe, even when all
signs point to chaos, motherfucker,

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send me a Costco amount of that right.

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This second.

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Let's go.

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where can I get it?

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It ships from Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania of all places.

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A lot of weird shit we'll
ship to you from Pittsburgh,

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Pennsylvania and we love to see it.

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Tight neck and neck race for the
best drug inspired and oriented music

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coming out of Pittsburgh between Black
Moth Super Rainbow and Wiz Khalifa.

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You know, not to intellectualize a
thing that should not be inherently

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intellectualized, but comparing this
record to Feeling High is real good in

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the context of what we are talking about.

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Because if I can just make
everyone laugh for just a moment

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what is the appropriate level?

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of World Seriousness for you
to be stoned off your ass.

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When is it ever the right amount,
the right time, everything has been

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taken care of just enough for it to be
reasonably excusable for you to just

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take a break, chill out, and try to
remind your brain that it doesn't have

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to solve every problem that has occurred
to you in the last, like, 96 hours?

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This record does that.

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Like Pavlov's Bell does, especially
if you listen to it enough, and that

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is a joy and a treasure that I had
relegated to particular records, and

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this one just like, walked itself right
up to the front door and joined that

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collection, which I'm sure we'll talk
some about today, but like, the thing

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that just puts you in a trance and lets
you feel good, the music, It's fun.

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It's memorable.

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I understand it.

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Like, all those things that just
let your heart rate come back

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down just a little bit, even
though you're having a good time.

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I think that comparison ends up holding
Steady a lot more than it should

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with all this music because this is
exactly the thing that I would like

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to encourage people to do is do the
equivalent of getting stoned with music

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again if you haven't in a while because
you also need to remember to relax.

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Now is an important time for

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The body's keeping the score, baby.

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And you gotta reset the scoreboard every
once in a while, you know what I'm saying?

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I do.

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I do.

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I

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The doctor is in, and
his name is Thomas Feck.

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Moon.

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And to say a little bit more about
it to you, I guess, before we, we

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get into a little bit more specifics,
I, I'm not just being lightheartedly

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facetious about this, I guess.

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Like, I truly think that this was, once
again, a nicely timed record to, Have

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to process and consume in the discipline
of listening to listening to music as

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we have and as we've talked about with
the With the calendar and in this idea

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of listening to music as it kind of
comes to you instead of you vibing your

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way to the music every time and To me
this reminded me of something that helps

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me center myself a little bit in this
moment the When everything starts to

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feel like really, really serious, which
if I'm being honest, it feels that way

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right now, everything feels like DEFCON
whatever the number is that indicates

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the highest DEFCON, like five alarm fire,
everything is jacked, what do we even

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start to do to me, when the seriousness
of everything ramps up, there is this

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possible inverse that can appear to you.

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And it's not like.

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Otherwise known as Defcon
69 or Five Alarm Chili.

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that will partially align with the
point that I'm making, but thank you.

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Yes, sort of to that point, the inverse
of all that seriousness isn't like

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silliness, like we're still adults, right?

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We can't just relax by.

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Being stupid.

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I know some people take that
approach with life and, you know,

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if, um, that's basically just
alcoholism by any other name.

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But like, you can numb yourself
into ridiculousness every day if

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that's how you want to detach.

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There's, I think, a better and more
interesting part of that to ride out.

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And so instead of the opposite
of seriousness being silly or

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stupidity, It's unseriousness.

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And I mean that like really
specifically because like to

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me it aligns with that idea

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absence of seriousness.

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You mean, not necessarily the
presence of silliness, but the

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like a vacuum of it.

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Yeah and like Similarly to that phrase,
like if everything is important,

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nothing is like, dude, if everything
is on fire, it's time to recalibrate.

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And I think this year is going to be
a really good opportunity for us as

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people to remember how to do that.

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The premise of this podcast
is that music gives you a way.

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To do those types of things for
yourself in ways that you might not

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know how to anticipate, or might not
be good enough to do with music yet.

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And so we end up talking a lot about how
to do that and sort of teaching that.

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This is a good example of a
record that's come right to you.

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Dandelion Gum is this plush
train ride straight out of hell.

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Just a truly weird thing that you
can attach yourself to because

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it is good and interesting in
ways that will surprise you.

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But I think this gives us something
to attach ourselves to that maybe

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reconnects that portion of our brain
that can actually lean all the way

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back and remember all the things that
we can't change and that we can't do.

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And.

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This record did it for me at a time where
I needed it to and I didn't expect it

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That in a meta sense is always the shit
that I love about every episode that we

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do It's always going to hit me in a way.

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I didn't expect

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I'm so excited to hear that because I
knew, like, Black Moth was one of those

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things I'd, like, filed away from my out
in the streets in the mid and late aughts.

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Like Atlanta had such a
counterculture in those days.

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That was like, this really
captures weird shit.

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How shows strange unbathed people just
like full of just strange characters

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and just trippiness everywhere you went.

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And I feel like I was like out in the
streets on the scene at a lot of those

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places and you were like rightfully
minding your own business a little more.

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And it makes me really happy that like
this, you got on a wavelength with

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this, cause we have always been on

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coordinatable wavelengths, I'll say,
but that was a time when I think we

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were both like branching out in a
lot of ways and we were getting into

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really, really different things.

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So it's just like, I also like to think
of it a little bit of as an artifact of

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this, like immediately pre Ified internet
when like there was still promise in

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culture and counterculture and you know,
the, the hope and change just before

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Obama's America and just that strange
little moment, the, the like 2002 to

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2009 10 moment that will be impossible
to encapsulate in words forever.

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And a lot of the artifacts are.

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Lo fi or gone because it was
such a transitional moment

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and culture changed so fast.

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So it's like, I also just on like
a personal level, I'm glad that

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we're capturing a little bit of
this headspace for posterity.

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For sure, I mean 2007 in general is A cool
moment to look back on musically speaking

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and to the context you just mentioned,
because that hopefulness of technology and

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music taking off is, I mean, a big part
of the appeal of Black Moth Super Rainbow

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and how they came to grow anyway, because
Two two things were evolving at that time.

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One is the ability to create music more
easily and at a higher level than before.

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And then at the same time, the
ability to distribute music at

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scale and in a different way
that it never happened before.

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And just to, recontextualize, especially
for folks who may be, you know, young

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enough to where this wasn't a moment
where they were paying a ton of attention.

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The same record, or the same year that
this record came out, so 2007, was

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when Radiohead released In Rainbows
and sort of flipped around the model

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of being able to get to music at all.

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Did the pay what you want thing.

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Right, which was, which now seems so
simple, but at the time was, I mean,

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it was the event of the internet, uh,
and it was it was pointing us towards

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a future where, One million blog think
pieces were written, I'm sure, in 2007

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about the democratized future of music
now because if independent artists

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can make music and they can distribute
it directly to people, what do we

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even need corporations for anymore?

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Which is a nice trip to the past
reminding us that that question doesn't

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necessarily result in the future we want.

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But it also fostered such a curiosity,
you know, you know, like people seem to

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be fascinated with millennials and elder
millennials is like a, Oh, a strange

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little alien thing in the cultural
consciousness in good and bad ways.

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But, you know, what you see in the
moment that is 2007 and below the surface

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stuff like Black Moth Super Rainbow is.

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The fruits coming to bear of like five
years of unfettered music access your

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Napster's your cause as your whatever,
and then a real sort of like end of web 1.

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0 ecosystem of that curiosity
and insatiable sense of

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discovery starting to pop up.

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and like, I don't even remember
what the, big stuff would have

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been in exactly that time.

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Like, was it per pure volume
with SoundCloud around yet?

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00:15:20,684 --> 00:15:24,634
Was it still my space maybe for a
little bit, but there were like all

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of these vehicles where people were
starting to curate and go farther and

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00:15:29,814 --> 00:15:35,094
farther out and there, there was just a
real sense that anything was possible.

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00:15:35,154 --> 00:15:38,844
and in fact, we had to like
do more and try more and.

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There was so much experimentation
and breaking down of artificial

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boundaries that had existed and genre.

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And this was just one of the really
smart, cool by products of that

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00:15:52,036 --> 00:15:54,166
kind of Petri dish in culture.

223
00:15:54,578 --> 00:16:01,158
Yeah, and to, uh, as we'll discuss,
to a shocking degree, that is the case

224
00:16:01,598 --> 00:16:06,188
because just to really set the stage,
by the way, we're, we're going to tell

225
00:16:06,188 --> 00:16:09,008
you all the reasons you're going to
like this record, but you need to know

226
00:16:09,218 --> 00:16:14,008
how ridiculous the setting of it is
in order to fully appreciate the weird

227
00:16:14,008 --> 00:16:17,038
vibes it's going to throw at you that
you're going to end up liking a lot,

228
00:16:17,228 --> 00:16:19,178
and then later finding yourself singing.

229
00:16:19,568 --> 00:16:22,638
Uh, ridiculous vocoder esque lines of.

230
00:16:22,898 --> 00:16:27,498
I also think though, it would be very
easy to just do a 30 second, like

231
00:16:27,498 --> 00:16:31,418
you joke, right before we started
recording a 30 second, like, Oh man.

232
00:16:31,418 --> 00:16:34,238
And that's just the whole thing.

233
00:16:34,248 --> 00:16:35,258
Like, just go listen to it.

234
00:16:35,258 --> 00:16:35,658
And it's.

235
00:16:36,388 --> 00:16:39,718
It's way more self evident of an
enjoyable listen than anything

236
00:16:39,718 --> 00:16:40,718
we've done for a while, to

237
00:16:40,788 --> 00:16:41,888
Oh, yeah, fair point,

238
00:16:42,098 --> 00:16:45,348
Immediately, you're like, oh shit,
this feels like getting in a hot tub.

239
00:16:46,058 --> 00:16:49,028
And you're just like, alright, I'm
good, check back on me in two hours

240
00:16:49,028 --> 00:16:50,788
or whatever and see if I've pruned.

241
00:16:51,108 --> 00:16:55,138
It just works on a primal level.

242
00:16:55,458 --> 00:16:59,758
So I think doing a little
bit of examination around,

243
00:17:00,329 --> 00:17:01,739
how did this come to be?

244
00:17:02,239 --> 00:17:07,179
So specific and so good because I think
even if you do a million tentacles of

245
00:17:07,459 --> 00:17:12,539
recommended, if you like, you're not going
to find anything that's quite like this

246
00:17:12,569 --> 00:17:16,459
very specific thing, which they have he
has chased this sort of very specific

247
00:17:16,459 --> 00:17:21,149
thing and made it work for him again and
again and just like refine the formula

248
00:17:21,189 --> 00:17:23,274
subtly, but it's a thing that works.

249
00:17:23,622 --> 00:17:28,502
so knowing like what could have even
given rise to that is interesting.

250
00:17:29,257 --> 00:17:33,507
On the flip side, there's a lot of mystery
around the artist, you know, quote,

251
00:17:33,507 --> 00:17:37,217
unquote, maybe there is, maybe there
isn't, and less so as he's gotten older.

252
00:17:37,767 --> 00:17:41,477
But that was like a really
big deal for a long time.

253
00:17:42,127 --> 00:17:45,407
And on the flip side, you
can consider like, how little

254
00:17:45,427 --> 00:17:47,327
do you really need to know?

255
00:17:47,327 --> 00:17:50,667
Or like, how little could you possibly
know to still enjoy this thing?

256
00:17:50,667 --> 00:17:57,311
So I do want us to ride that line of, As
we use that phrase often, like not cutting

257
00:17:57,311 --> 00:18:02,531
the lights on in Space Mountain, just
like finding lots of little textures as we

258
00:18:02,531 --> 00:18:07,381
stick our hands out of the coaster without
accidentally flipping a light switch.

259
00:18:07,691 --> 00:18:09,331
Yeah, but this one would be pretty tight.

260
00:18:09,341 --> 00:18:12,221
Cause like, I feel like on this one,
if you turn the lights on in Space

261
00:18:12,221 --> 00:18:15,701
Mountain, It's like, there's a dude
downstairs in like, a rope with

262
00:18:15,701 --> 00:18:17,631
like, neon silly string or something.

263
00:18:17,811 --> 00:18:19,701
And he's just sort of dancing to himself.

264
00:18:20,001 --> 00:18:21,451
And he looks up at you and he's like.

265
00:18:22,261 --> 00:18:23,251
Did you wanna watch?

266
00:18:23,471 --> 00:18:24,151
Or join?

267
00:18:24,391 --> 00:18:29,771
But he's also wearing a mask that he made
at his house of like a melting orange.

268
00:18:31,061 --> 00:18:31,821
Oh, man.

269
00:18:31,861 --> 00:18:34,371
Oh, you saw me, man.

270
00:18:36,171 --> 00:18:40,301
I do miss the days of this
particular era where the idea of

271
00:18:40,311 --> 00:18:43,431
band lore was exclusively ironic.

272
00:18:43,991 --> 00:18:47,861
Uh, and could never be like an actual
thing because we didn't have at the

273
00:18:47,861 --> 00:18:54,421
time We didn't have hives yet, or that,
that like deployed around fan bases.

274
00:18:54,671 --> 00:18:59,031
We just had people who were overly
proud of liking bands like this and the

275
00:18:59,031 --> 00:19:03,951
Flaming Lips, or uh, in semi analogous
ways, bands like the Blood Brothers

276
00:19:03,951 --> 00:19:07,321
and stuff and like, it's aggressively
weird and I like it and you didn't, but

277
00:19:07,321 --> 00:19:09,111
you can come with me if you want to.

278
00:19:09,411 --> 00:19:11,391
Yeah, but you never ran
to your point about hives.

279
00:19:11,391 --> 00:19:13,221
You never ran across them in packs.

280
00:19:13,301 --> 00:19:14,221
It was one.

281
00:19:14,861 --> 00:19:19,301
comic book guy character behind the
counter somewhere usually and you're

282
00:19:19,301 --> 00:19:23,521
like, sir, I'm just Come on, man.

283
00:19:23,841 --> 00:19:25,551
I'm just trying to go about my day.

284
00:19:26,701 --> 00:19:31,101
Thanks for the tip I will go
investigate it on my own and then

285
00:19:31,101 --> 00:19:35,081
if I come back as passionate as
you then we can talk but just real

286
00:19:35,081 --> 00:19:36,741
energy and balance right now, man

287
00:19:37,951 --> 00:19:41,701
Yes, and we are going to do the
equivalent of, uh, you know, an

288
00:19:41,711 --> 00:19:45,401
out of town suburbanite walks into
the record store and says, give

289
00:19:45,421 --> 00:19:47,041
me your best record, sir, please.

290
00:19:47,041 --> 00:19:47,731
One of them.

291
00:19:47,971 --> 00:19:49,901
And we hand you this fucking record.

292
00:19:50,211 --> 00:19:52,661
Uh, and we tell you, you're going
to become a Black Moth Super

293
00:19:52,661 --> 00:19:54,381
Rainbow fan before you know it.

294
00:19:54,381 --> 00:19:58,871
And sure enough, like one of the
things I love about this is I think

295
00:19:58,871 --> 00:20:03,591
we can dissect it because even
if the music or the artist is.

296
00:20:03,836 --> 00:20:05,696
Unserious as we've talked about it.

297
00:20:05,876 --> 00:20:09,206
There's still a lot to talk about in
relatively serious ways because it's

298
00:20:09,206 --> 00:20:12,766
really interesting and it's really good
But like one of my favorite aspects of

299
00:20:12,766 --> 00:20:17,276
this record to the points that you're
making here Is from second one of the

300
00:20:17,276 --> 00:20:23,836
very first song it immediately drops
into a hook As you go along, they'll

301
00:20:23,836 --> 00:20:29,306
start playing with your disorientation,
and then in other songs will start

302
00:20:29,306 --> 00:20:33,056
to draw out the amount of time before
you can get to the actual underlying

303
00:20:33,056 --> 00:20:34,476
hook that you're going to remember.

304
00:20:34,926 --> 00:20:41,016
But I deeply love how hard it immediately
drops into basically a halftime beat

305
00:20:41,026 --> 00:20:42,886
at the very beginning of the record.

306
00:20:43,346 --> 00:20:44,576
And in.

307
00:20:44,946 --> 00:20:51,416
In a way that few other records do
or can actually sets an appropriate

308
00:20:51,436 --> 00:20:55,196
tone for the rest of the journey
that you're going to go on.

309
00:20:55,456 --> 00:20:59,436
It doesn't introduce everything
all at once, but vibe wise, it's

310
00:20:59,436 --> 00:21:04,326
directly in, it's on point, it's
directionally accurate, and you kind

311
00:21:04,326 --> 00:21:05,666
of know what you're getting into.

312
00:21:06,146 --> 00:21:12,946
And like, it's a move in that sense that
feels overly intentional and thought out.

313
00:21:13,421 --> 00:21:17,051
And at the same time this will
be an exercise in contrasts.

314
00:21:17,471 --> 00:21:22,701
We are talking about in this case, at
least one person tobacco who disclosed

315
00:21:22,821 --> 00:21:27,091
in a song exploder interview in
2016 that he quote, doesn't know any

316
00:21:27,091 --> 00:21:32,021
instruments and became enamored with
a four track recorder that his parents

317
00:21:32,061 --> 00:21:33,421
gave him while he was in high school.

318
00:21:33,825 --> 00:21:39,915
in the wildest senses of the word,
completely unserious approaches to

319
00:21:39,915 --> 00:21:45,295
making music that still nevertheless
has made a collection of really awesome,

320
00:21:45,495 --> 00:21:50,405
hooky, memorable, uh, stuff that if
you haven't heard it, there's a good

321
00:21:50,405 --> 00:21:53,615
chance you're going to end up liking
it and just be surprised that you do.

322
00:21:54,850 --> 00:22:00,960
every characterization That Thomas Feck
makes of his own music is interesting

323
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:06,590
to me and a study in contrast and I
described it in the show notes as writing

324
00:22:06,590 --> 00:22:09,040
the Ouroboros of elitism and nihilism.

325
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:16,905
There's like such a He has such an old
school hipster seriousness of like No,

326
00:22:16,905 --> 00:22:18,645
you shouldn't give a fuck like that.

327
00:22:19,025 --> 00:22:20,145
And I don't either.

328
00:22:20,185 --> 00:22:22,285
But, um, but also hold on.

329
00:22:22,695 --> 00:22:27,805
And he's like always calibrating the,
the nothing matters but everything

330
00:22:27,805 --> 00:22:30,705
does or the, or vice versa or whatever.

331
00:22:31,213 --> 00:22:34,768
so the first one in that regard that like
really jumps out at me, somebody asked

332
00:22:34,768 --> 00:22:38,868
them like as black Moss front man, how do
you maintain such an incognito and private

333
00:22:38,868 --> 00:22:40,738
identity in an expressive industry?

334
00:22:40,958 --> 00:22:43,058
Do you feel it affects your
band's career in any way?

335
00:22:43,408 --> 00:22:45,863
And he comes back with
something like, It's easy.

336
00:22:45,943 --> 00:22:47,263
I just don't put myself out there.

337
00:22:47,673 --> 00:22:50,653
I just don't have the compulsion,
like most oversharing musicians.

338
00:22:50,923 --> 00:22:52,263
That probably does affect my career.

339
00:22:52,263 --> 00:22:56,503
And it took me up until this new
album, a later one in 2013, to really

340
00:22:56,503 --> 00:23:00,133
understand that some dumb motherfuckers
need you to spell everything out for

341
00:23:00,143 --> 00:23:03,403
them in order for them to get what
you're doing, that includes the press.

342
00:23:03,403 --> 00:23:06,493
And that affected my career in the
past to a small degree, though.

343
00:23:06,493 --> 00:23:08,073
Luckily I've just had enough people.

344
00:23:08,073 --> 00:23:10,773
I've had just enough people on board
now who don't need it fed to them

345
00:23:10,773 --> 00:23:12,913
through a tube and they totally get it.

346
00:23:15,006 --> 00:23:21,256
In this era, in this cycle of, uh,
stuff though, it was a little less edgy.

347
00:23:21,536 --> 00:23:25,546
or maybe actually this was a late and
even later quote, he said, Oh man, I

348
00:23:25,546 --> 00:23:27,226
have the worst time describing what I do.

349
00:23:27,266 --> 00:23:29,756
I usually start with saying
something like most people don't

350
00:23:29,786 --> 00:23:31,256
like it, or it's not for everyone.

351
00:23:31,566 --> 00:23:34,256
And then something about it
being electronic, et cetera.

352
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,460
and then I think one really important
distinction, like talking about

353
00:23:37,460 --> 00:23:40,820
contrast, the point you made when I
make stuff that I think people will

354
00:23:40,820 --> 00:23:42,690
like that's black moth, super rainbow.

355
00:23:43,310 --> 00:23:46,080
And the stuff that might
sound totally almost offensive

356
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,730
to people, that's tobacco.

357
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:49,630
So there's a whole other strain.

358
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:55,200
You can eject the cassette of this
episode and go to, if you're like,

359
00:23:55,230 --> 00:23:59,610
I the hippie shit, the whatever, uh,
there is a version of this that exists

360
00:23:59,610 --> 00:24:03,550
for like staying plugged into the
matrix of 2025 and that's tobacco.

361
00:24:03,853 --> 00:24:07,972
the really grabby one for me is the
first track of, A record called fucked

362
00:24:07,972 --> 00:24:12,982
up friends, which, you know, gives
you the thesis statement, I guess.

363
00:24:13,002 --> 00:24:14,432
And it's called street trash.

364
00:24:15,732 --> 00:24:21,512
And it's all more hip hoppy
and low end and Dewey Cox,

365
00:24:21,522 --> 00:24:23,332
bad trip, bad trip, bad trip.

366
00:24:23,730 --> 00:24:28,471
and if you don't dig that one, you
might recognize solo tobacco work.

367
00:24:28,501 --> 00:24:32,381
If you've ever watched the show Silicon
Valley because on the followup to fucked

368
00:24:32,391 --> 00:24:34,401
up friends, a record called maniac meat.

369
00:24:35,256 --> 00:24:38,736
Um, which is what it feels like
to be in your body in 2025.

370
00:24:39,506 --> 00:24:43,056
Uh, the song Stretch Your Face is
used as the Silicon Valley theme song.

371
00:24:44,081 --> 00:24:45,131
Oh!

372
00:24:46,757 --> 00:24:49,767
Sorry, this is, uh, unhelpful
for a podcast recording.

373
00:24:49,777 --> 00:24:51,877
That is really sending
me on some thoughts.

374
00:24:52,117 --> 00:24:52,857
That's really cool.

375
00:24:52,857 --> 00:24:54,557
I didn't realize that myself.

376
00:24:54,771 --> 00:24:59,301
Yeah, Nihilist Analog Guy doing
the show theme song that is, uh,

377
00:24:59,731 --> 00:25:02,831
a parody of all the shittiness of
the tech age and what it wrought.

378
00:25:03,571 --> 00:25:05,581
The eerily prophetic show.

379
00:25:05,581 --> 00:25:06,161
Yeah,

380
00:25:06,286 --> 00:25:08,896
A full yes to what you are saying.

381
00:25:08,936 --> 00:25:11,656
And also, yeah, and it slaps.

382
00:25:11,846 --> 00:25:13,476
And I always wondered why,

383
00:25:13,626 --> 00:25:13,796
you

384
00:25:13,951 --> 00:25:14,911
objectively good.

385
00:25:15,021 --> 00:25:15,391
Yeah.

386
00:25:15,506 --> 00:25:16,946
And nothing sounds like it out there.

387
00:25:17,306 --> 00:25:17,916
Exactly.

388
00:25:17,956 --> 00:25:21,086
And it drops immediately
into a halftime beat.

389
00:25:21,316 --> 00:25:23,936
Like, Oh, I'm loving this move.

390
00:25:24,186 --> 00:25:28,466
And I I'll mention in a moment when
we when we talk through some of

391
00:25:28,466 --> 00:25:29,766
the things that occurred to us on.

392
00:25:30,316 --> 00:25:34,516
Fresh or, first intentional listens
in a while because it definitely

393
00:25:34,596 --> 00:25:39,308
very directly connects to a
particular move and artist for me.

394
00:25:39,657 --> 00:25:43,057
and that's another cool realization
and a cool connecting dot.

395
00:25:43,325 --> 00:25:47,695
to paint a little bit more of a
picture, uh, as well as maybe talk

396
00:25:47,695 --> 00:25:49,675
a little bit more as much as we can.

397
00:25:49,865 --> 00:25:54,975
I mean, there's not, honestly, a
ton of encyclopedic information

398
00:25:54,985 --> 00:25:58,445
for us to draw from for either
this artist or this record.

399
00:25:58,685 --> 00:26:01,295
Um, that's part of what makes
it cool to talk about, honestly.

400
00:26:01,595 --> 00:26:07,485
But I think one way that you can
catch the vibe of this, especially if

401
00:26:07,495 --> 00:26:11,975
Black Moth Super Rainbow is a newer
artist to you, in your awareness,

402
00:26:12,405 --> 00:26:14,795
is like, this is heavy aesthetics.

403
00:26:15,179 --> 00:26:21,689
it is a capital I important that you Get
on board with the feel of sort of what's

404
00:26:21,689 --> 00:26:26,359
happening here And that we give you some
examples of how those aesthetics played

405
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:31,799
out even in like physical packaging and
stuff because this is Once again for

406
00:26:31,799 --> 00:26:37,559
it just being music really visual And
it helps you kind of fill in a lot of

407
00:26:37,569 --> 00:26:41,709
what you're listening to you if you can
can catch that And I think that plays

408
00:26:41,709 --> 00:26:47,374
out not only in Like we say like visual
aesthetics, but also in the way that

409
00:26:47,374 --> 00:26:52,174
this band tried to talk about itself
and market itself You've already pulled

410
00:26:52,174 --> 00:26:59,375
out some solid quotes so So, Black Mile
Super Rainbow was picked up by Graveface

411
00:26:59,385 --> 00:27:06,105
Records uh, after 2005 picked them up
with a prior record called Lost Picking

412
00:27:06,105 --> 00:27:10,935
Flowers in the Woods, uh, and reissued
their first two albums, uh, which they

413
00:27:10,935 --> 00:27:12,755
had, previously released by themselves.

414
00:27:13,085 --> 00:27:16,765
So, They already have a pretty
experimental record company

415
00:27:16,785 --> 00:27:21,235
picking up on this from totally
indie, self published type stuff.

416
00:27:21,545 --> 00:27:26,635
But if you try to place yourself in
the perspective of a record company in

417
00:27:26,645 --> 00:27:30,285
the mid aughts trying to capitalize on
everything we've sort of pointed out

418
00:27:30,285 --> 00:27:34,715
so far, but also taking advantage of
that true moment of like, weird music

419
00:27:34,715 --> 00:27:38,595
got marketed for the first time in a
very long time, maybe ever, maybe not.

420
00:27:39,045 --> 00:27:42,525
At scale and so people were trying
to figure out how to get you on board

421
00:27:42,525 --> 00:27:47,715
with some fucking weird stuff and That
results in things like this description

422
00:27:47,715 --> 00:27:55,085
from gray face records about about this
album quote Deep in the woods of western

423
00:27:55,165 --> 00:28:01,025
Pennsylvania, vocoders hum amongst the
flowers and scents which bubble under

424
00:28:01,025 --> 00:28:06,045
the leaf strewn ground while flutes
whistle in the wind and beats bounce to

425
00:28:06,045 --> 00:28:08,655
the soft drizzle of a warm acid rain.

426
00:28:08,985 --> 00:28:13,245
As the sun peeks out from between
the clouds, the organic oral

427
00:28:13,275 --> 00:28:19,045
concoction of Black Moth Super Rainbow
starts to glisten above the trees.

428
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:21,720
On the next episode of hella tubbies.

429
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,380
We're like ketatubbies, like, dude,

430
00:28:28,940 --> 00:28:30,770
That's what I'm going to
start calling Elon Musk.

431
00:28:34,556 --> 00:28:38,276
my brain is just casting members of the
rest of that show, including the son.

432
00:28:38,846 --> 00:28:45,466
Oh, that's, that's deeply bad
where my brain is going now.

433
00:28:45,691 --> 00:28:49,711
The sun, the sun is just the
screaming sun from Rick and Morty.

434
00:28:52,071 --> 00:28:54,251
that's too inviting to, to take that bait.

435
00:28:54,271 --> 00:28:58,145
Uh, I'm going to pull back,
but that's a nice description.

436
00:28:58,145 --> 00:29:01,025
I think of what people are trying to do.

437
00:29:01,035 --> 00:29:03,495
If they're going to hook you
into this music before you

438
00:29:03,495 --> 00:29:04,935
get a chance to listen to it.

439
00:29:05,315 --> 00:29:06,215
Uh, it is.

440
00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:11,380
further from the edges of what
you might anticipate than most

441
00:29:11,470 --> 00:29:14,970
things that even in this podcast,
we sort of ask you to pick up.

442
00:29:15,460 --> 00:29:20,960
And yet, as Kyle, you and I have already
talked about, but bringing in that theme

443
00:29:20,970 --> 00:29:27,550
of contrasts, this is both deeply weird
music and possibly the most immediately

444
00:29:27,550 --> 00:29:29,930
accessible thing we've talked about in

445
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:31,110
A while.

446
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:31,730
Yeah.

447
00:29:32,590 --> 00:29:35,480
Yeah, like more than Paramore even

448
00:29:35,660 --> 00:29:36,270
Yes.

449
00:29:36,773 --> 00:29:41,773
and like maybe more than Olivia Rodrigo
Like this is the poppiest pop album

450
00:29:41,793 --> 00:29:47,453
that we have maybe covered period I
just kept thinking about how it felt

451
00:29:47,453 --> 00:29:53,081
like listening to the Beatles in the
middle of a hallucination, you know,

452
00:29:53,470 --> 00:29:58,930
all the fractals of time and space
crystal break and you hear the White

453
00:29:58,930 --> 00:30:03,703
Album or something somewhere, and you
can like barely perceive it because you

454
00:30:03,703 --> 00:30:06,303
can't perceive dimension or direction.

455
00:30:08,278 --> 00:30:13,558
Honestly, to be unusually fair to the
Beatles, there is a lot of that lineage

456
00:30:13,558 --> 00:30:18,848
here, and specifically from their
weirder records, and the way that they

457
00:30:19,273 --> 00:30:22,713
band and record makes me feel more
complimentary about the Beatles for the

458
00:30:22,713 --> 00:30:24,723
first time maybe ever in my life actually.

459
00:30:24,928 --> 00:30:25,408
Yeah.

460
00:30:25,488 --> 00:30:29,548
I mean, and giving, in this case, then
like giving the Beatles their flowers

461
00:30:29,558 --> 00:30:33,738
for like their impact on psychedelia,
which is definitely what came out here.

462
00:30:33,963 --> 00:30:34,793
1000%.

463
00:30:34,908 --> 00:30:41,378
Yeah, even, not only will some of
the tone and approaches in this music

464
00:30:41,378 --> 00:30:48,388
remind you of, you know, to me, more
Revolver era stuff but even on a

465
00:30:48,388 --> 00:30:52,928
music theory level, a lot of what
Blackmail Super Rainbow here deploys.

466
00:30:52,998 --> 00:30:55,418
It's just like modal harmony with itself.

467
00:30:55,858 --> 00:31:00,498
And that's exactly what the Beatles
did to introduce that shifting

468
00:31:00,898 --> 00:31:03,638
feeling of psychedelia over pop.

469
00:31:03,808 --> 00:31:06,498
That then the Beach Boys would
go on through things like

470
00:31:06,508 --> 00:31:08,968
Pet Sounds to just perfect.

471
00:31:09,762 --> 00:31:13,132
Which maybe that's a note when we need
to find a way to talk more about pet

472
00:31:13,132 --> 00:31:17,656
sounds again one day, but there's this
really cool lineage all the way through

473
00:31:17,656 --> 00:31:22,686
the 60s all the way up to here, but that
now is not only introducing some of the

474
00:31:22,686 --> 00:31:28,906
later electronic stuff that would come in
the decades after, the 60s and 70s, but

475
00:31:28,906 --> 00:31:33,516
then on top of that layers in the what
would become modern production technique,

476
00:31:33,736 --> 00:31:39,236
really dirty forms of production, uh,
that made things feel fuzzy while also

477
00:31:39,246 --> 00:31:42,916
being just on the other side of, like
we've talked about many times the loudness

478
00:31:42,926 --> 00:31:44,866
war and evolution of production there.

479
00:31:45,386 --> 00:31:49,366
And like, this was around the time
where you could legitimately start

480
00:31:49,366 --> 00:31:54,616
to take equipment that you could buy,
software that you could buy your.

481
00:31:55,143 --> 00:31:59,293
silver ass MacBook that would pinwheel
spin half the time while you were

482
00:31:59,293 --> 00:32:03,723
doing stuff, but like everything
had gotten just good enough to where

483
00:32:03,723 --> 00:32:07,723
you could software purchase your
way to something sounding right.

484
00:32:08,043 --> 00:32:12,566
And then because, production had
more of an established sound at

485
00:32:12,566 --> 00:32:17,156
this point, you could sort of cheat
your way over to it sounding right.

486
00:32:17,386 --> 00:32:19,446
You can make it sound
loud at the end of it.

487
00:32:19,976 --> 00:32:22,916
And that sort of contributed

488
00:32:23,006 --> 00:32:26,466
you were smart or reckless enough.

489
00:32:26,616 --> 00:32:32,268
Yeah, in that sense, it also sort
of calls up the lineage of man,

490
00:32:32,278 --> 00:32:38,078
you mentioned hipster Ouroboros
and, uh, nihilism and elitism.

491
00:32:38,098 --> 00:32:42,958
So let's just mention the band at
the exact dot center of that one,

492
00:32:43,158 --> 00:32:45,088
and that would be Neutral Milk Hotel.

493
00:32:46,181 --> 00:32:47,921
the, record that everyone loves, right?

494
00:32:47,921 --> 00:32:49,381
The aeroplane over the sea.

495
00:32:49,546 --> 00:32:51,526
the aeroplane over the sea.

496
00:32:52,111 --> 00:32:53,331
Jesus Christ!

497
00:32:53,341 --> 00:32:55,061
Oh, yeah, just, ugh.

498
00:32:56,341 --> 00:33:02,101
But a lot, a lot of people, some people
maybe unironically love that record, I'm

499
00:33:02,101 --> 00:33:08,251
not sure, but that record represents,
the Neutral Milk Hotel one, represented

500
00:33:08,251 --> 00:33:15,681
a like audacity in self recording in
what became like bedroom DIY recording

501
00:33:15,971 --> 00:33:21,891
of otherwise weird indie shit that
like wasn't even close to being worth

502
00:33:21,921 --> 00:33:27,761
investment by a record company and like,
that along with, you know, some of their

503
00:33:27,761 --> 00:33:32,831
other eventual contemporaries, like
maybe Animal Collective or early Animal

504
00:33:32,831 --> 00:33:37,521
Collective, especially like that sound
of, we can make this good enough and

505
00:33:37,521 --> 00:33:41,171
we don't have to do that good of a job
recording it or producing it in order

506
00:33:41,171 --> 00:33:46,816
to get to where we want to go really
not only blossomed during this time, but

507
00:33:46,816 --> 00:33:52,781
like a lot of us got used to that method
of people making music because that is.

508
00:33:53,461 --> 00:33:57,561
Especially for, probably five or 10
years, like if you heard an up and coming

509
00:33:57,571 --> 00:34:03,271
band, the first thing that you liked and
appreciated from them was some garage band

510
00:34:03,281 --> 00:34:08,021
ass shit that sounded real, like handshake
murders are coming to mind to me in the

511
00:34:08,021 --> 00:34:11,371
moment where it's like, yeah, but if you
can get ahold of the one before the one

512
00:34:11,371 --> 00:34:15,771
that you started liking, you're going to
get a real idea of how everything, uh,

513
00:34:16,671 --> 00:34:22,211
I always think of when you brought
over the unmastered, extremely loud

514
00:34:22,211 --> 00:34:28,121
Maylene demos before one came out,
and it was just the most blown out.

515
00:34:28,809 --> 00:34:33,775
Was like, the weirdest Sonic Youth
type blowout, like, destruction unit

516
00:34:33,805 --> 00:34:38,605
level blowout, it sounded crazy and
nothing like what it would ultimately

517
00:34:38,615 --> 00:34:42,215
become, but like, we rode around, it
was like almost a badge of honor to,

518
00:34:42,915 --> 00:34:44,665
to get the weird, the weird shit, the

519
00:34:44,720 --> 00:34:45,730
the advanced ones.

520
00:34:45,750 --> 00:34:47,190
Yeah, the advanced copies.

521
00:34:47,420 --> 00:34:54,410
Oh yeah, it was a huge deal when we could
get the half shitty pre version of, uh,

522
00:34:54,920 --> 00:35:00,540
back before Under Oath built its own
shark to jump over, right after they're

523
00:35:00,540 --> 00:35:04,110
only chasing safety, they had to find the
Great Line, and like, that was a highly

524
00:35:04,110 --> 00:35:09,890
anticipated record for a lot of people,
and a version of that leaked before it

525
00:35:09,890 --> 00:35:15,500
got actually mastered and finalized, and
like, everyone I knew was listening to

526
00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:18,290
that, like, that particular version of it,

527
00:35:19,565 --> 00:35:20,005
Man.

528
00:35:20,210 --> 00:35:21,510
none of that exists the same way

529
00:35:21,545 --> 00:35:23,965
RAR file,

530
00:35:24,460 --> 00:35:24,850
yeah,

531
00:35:25,045 --> 00:35:25,815
trading.

532
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,210
yeah, getting, getting text
messages that cost ten cents a

533
00:35:30,210 --> 00:35:34,680
piece from someone who's going, Do
you know how to open a rare file?

534
00:35:35,050 --> 00:35:36,490
It's pronounced rare.

535
00:35:37,110 --> 00:35:38,300
Get off the computer.

536
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,170
You have a virus now.

537
00:35:40,410 --> 00:35:40,950
Stop.

538
00:35:42,795 --> 00:35:43,475
It was worth it.

539
00:35:44,115 --> 00:35:45,135
I burned that CD.

540
00:35:46,010 --> 00:35:50,170
Well, just download it on mom's computer
first and then transfer it over to yours.

541
00:35:50,695 --> 00:35:55,255
Back when a computer was a place,
and not in your pocket all the time.

542
00:35:56,180 --> 00:35:56,610
Yeah.

543
00:35:56,625 --> 00:36:01,015
I laughed at that the first time that I
saw it, but that was a cultural shift.

544
00:36:01,015 --> 00:36:04,345
When the computer moved from being
a stationary place, an event that

545
00:36:04,355 --> 00:36:08,875
you could walk in and out of,
into, a thing, happening to you,

546
00:36:08,875 --> 00:36:09,645
all the

547
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,130
room, yes.

548
00:36:11,410 --> 00:36:13,760
Perpetually occupied
by your little brother.

549
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:19,910
Who, who is definitely not looking at
whatever it was that you thought they were

550
00:36:19,910 --> 00:36:21,310
looking at before you came into the room.

551
00:36:21,310 --> 00:36:25,970
They were definitely playing Hot
Wheels online or Roller Coaster Tycoon.

552
00:36:26,340 --> 00:36:27,170
Please don't worry.

553
00:36:27,515 --> 00:36:28,115
For.

554
00:36:28,625 --> 00:36:29,165
Sure.

555
00:36:30,740 --> 00:36:34,520
Check their browser history, see if
they know how to, how to erase it yet.

556
00:36:35,414 --> 00:36:37,906
mean,

557
00:36:40,535 --> 00:36:41,215
They won't.

558
00:36:42,015 --> 00:36:47,475
So do you think that there's anything
background lore or detail wise that's

559
00:36:47,475 --> 00:36:53,195
important to talk about before we
kind of talk about first or new fresh

560
00:36:53,195 --> 00:36:55,275
impressions of what we listen to?

561
00:36:56,325 --> 00:37:00,112
just really quickly, you've hit
on lore, you've hit on aesthetics,

562
00:37:00,142 --> 00:37:03,979
the lore is nobody knows when
this was actually really recorded.

563
00:37:04,119 --> 00:37:08,819
Just, he's been really prolific,
Thomas Feck, and so this stuff just

564
00:37:08,819 --> 00:37:13,934
sort of Happened in the mid two
thousands came out in May of 2007.

565
00:37:14,684 --> 00:37:15,614
Put out on great basis.

566
00:37:15,624 --> 00:37:18,644
You mentioned a DIY studio set up.

567
00:37:19,199 --> 00:37:23,099
In or around Pittsburgh, the, the
lore is that they, you know, went off

568
00:37:23,099 --> 00:37:26,039
and did shit in the woods, and maybe
they were a cult, maybe they weren't.

569
00:37:26,039 --> 00:37:29,579
But the reality of it is somewhere around
Pittsburgh, wherever he lived, Thomas Feck

570
00:37:29,579 --> 00:37:31,739
was doing this pretty much by himself.

571
00:37:32,189 --> 00:37:36,319
And the, the personnel eventually
around him were his live outfit.

572
00:37:36,829 --> 00:37:39,207
Were and r the artwork.

573
00:37:39,807 --> 00:37:42,067
the aesthetic is like an immediate draw.

574
00:37:42,097 --> 00:37:44,687
So we've talked about
Forever Heavy opening track.

575
00:37:46,047 --> 00:37:49,777
Every melody is a chorus level
melody, um, and it draws you in

576
00:37:49,777 --> 00:37:51,857
immediately, but the visuals do too.

577
00:37:51,867 --> 00:37:54,107
You can judge a book by its cover.

578
00:37:54,687 --> 00:37:59,568
so two things about the vinyl, which
is like, this is right when vinyl

579
00:37:59,568 --> 00:38:02,661
really started becoming a thing again.

580
00:38:03,181 --> 00:38:08,245
And, the rainbow face on the cover
comes from a garbage pail kid.

581
00:38:08,275 --> 00:38:16,825
So there's a huge influence of 80s horror
and like shitty low grade VHS culture.

582
00:38:17,983 --> 00:38:22,463
is more everywhere now, uh, and accounts
like everything is terrible and like

583
00:38:22,463 --> 00:38:28,563
places on the internet that have
proliferated, like lo fi weird refractions

584
00:38:28,793 --> 00:38:31,416
of the ugliness of normie culture.

585
00:38:31,736 --> 00:38:34,386
but big earnest fans of
stuff like Garbage Pail Kids.

586
00:38:35,056 --> 00:38:36,856
Uh, and so the, the rainbow.

587
00:38:37,736 --> 00:38:41,806
That a face is sort of slapped
on was Stinkerbell or Fairy

588
00:38:41,816 --> 00:38:43,816
Mary, the Garbage Pail Kid.

589
00:38:43,896 --> 00:38:46,956
And it is literally a fairy
throwing up a rainbow.

590
00:38:47,614 --> 00:38:51,746
and then the vinyl, one of the OG
runs was a double bubblegum pink

591
00:38:51,756 --> 00:38:56,156
vinyl with gold splashes and a
gatefold sleeve with a scratch and

592
00:38:56,156 --> 00:38:58,416
sniff bubblegum scent front cover.

593
00:38:59,551 --> 00:39:06,711
So like 80s, you know, golden books
level weirdness, just trying to call

594
00:39:06,711 --> 00:39:14,651
up a hallucination of a memory of being
the pretty much exact age that we are.

595
00:39:14,761 --> 00:39:18,981
And coming up in Reagan's
consumer Reagan and Bush one and

596
00:39:18,981 --> 00:39:21,301
Clinton's consumerist America.

597
00:39:21,903 --> 00:39:25,833
but not like in a bad, serious rage
against the machine anyway, just in

598
00:39:25,833 --> 00:39:28,883
a sort of Absence of seriousness.

599
00:39:28,883 --> 00:39:31,213
Like, man, isn't everything weird.

600
00:39:31,683 --> 00:39:33,373
Here's a melting rainbow face.

601
00:39:33,913 --> 00:39:36,033
All right, turn on the
music, play it loud.

602
00:39:36,459 --> 00:39:38,159
I'm grateful for that recommendation.

603
00:39:38,689 --> 00:39:40,049
That's exactly what I did.

604
00:39:40,689 --> 00:39:48,055
And it was nice to relieve myself from
the regular sensation of mostly listening

605
00:39:48,095 --> 00:39:55,538
and trying to absorb, but also searching,
thinking, trying to notice, trying to

606
00:39:55,548 --> 00:39:57,908
take note as I'm listening to stuff.

607
00:39:58,278 --> 00:40:01,628
It was much easier to release
myself from all of that.

608
00:40:02,018 --> 00:40:07,758
And when I did do that, I did find,
interestingly enough, There are plenty

609
00:40:07,758 --> 00:40:11,848
of times that I hook into, anyway, plenty
of things I do take note of that I don't

610
00:40:11,858 --> 00:40:20,158
need to because even at a very base level,
the hooks here will transport me to other

611
00:40:20,158 --> 00:40:26,505
songs, and other artists entirely, but
in a different sense than just, the,

612
00:40:27,275 --> 00:40:30,315
Sort of lineage of influence over time.

613
00:40:30,325 --> 00:40:36,145
It's not quite a they remind me of someone
else who was a You know an influence on

614
00:40:36,145 --> 00:40:40,895
them or they're doing something new with
this type of music not really It's just

615
00:40:40,895 --> 00:40:46,445
that the hooks are so good and they're
like They're so good without having to

616
00:40:46,445 --> 00:40:48,365
have a bunch of layers on top of them.

617
00:40:48,565 --> 00:40:54,945
Like generally speaking, it's just a
synth and or a vocoder doing something

618
00:40:54,965 --> 00:41:00,465
interesting in harmony with itself
and then doing it that same way a few

619
00:41:00,465 --> 00:41:04,585
times over that song at just the right
cadence that just all feels right.

620
00:41:05,095 --> 00:41:09,785
And because of that simplicity, I
felt like I could see this band.

621
00:41:09,855 --> 00:41:14,695
Um, and I can, I can give some
examples of that, but I think just

622
00:41:14,695 --> 00:41:21,575
the In general, encouraging people as
we turn to how to start approaching

623
00:41:21,575 --> 00:41:24,825
this record, just pre lean back.

624
00:41:25,665 --> 00:41:27,615
Let it come all the way to you.

625
00:41:27,915 --> 00:41:29,505
Let yourself be surprised.

626
00:41:30,005 --> 00:41:33,905
And let yourself kind of hang
in there for the journeys that

627
00:41:33,905 --> 00:41:35,045
they're going to take you on.

628
00:41:35,315 --> 00:41:39,685
Especially through the kind of Timing of
different songs, uh, in the way that all

629
00:41:39,685 --> 00:41:45,715
of them feel exactly the same, and yet
each one is slightly different and sort

630
00:41:45,715 --> 00:41:51,307
of takes you through a different path,
uh, of the different kind of palettes that

631
00:41:51,307 --> 00:41:53,017
they're painting with all of this stuff.

632
00:41:53,307 --> 00:41:58,587
And that feeling is intensified if
you take all of the extra material

633
00:41:58,604 --> 00:42:03,994
from this era, which he later released
as a record called extra flavor.

634
00:42:04,874 --> 00:42:06,404
And you play it all as one line.

635
00:42:06,444 --> 00:42:10,154
So it's like a 30, you
Five, 40 minute record.

636
00:42:10,154 --> 00:42:13,394
It's pretty lean because it's a
bunch of minute and a half, two

637
00:42:13,394 --> 00:42:16,504
minute little vignette type things.

638
00:42:17,084 --> 00:42:19,987
And then if you add all the extra
flavor stuff, it's like an hour and

639
00:42:19,987 --> 00:42:22,517
a half, 35 or 40 pieces of music.

640
00:42:22,809 --> 00:42:28,000
it's like a regular hot tub and extra
deep hot tub type of experience.

641
00:42:30,065 --> 00:42:33,478
Yeah, and some of that
stuff on the extra release.

642
00:42:34,283 --> 00:42:38,833
Give some interesting context to, to
the rest of these songs and feels once

643
00:42:38,833 --> 00:42:44,393
again, especially mid 2000s because I
think what comes out even more in some

644
00:42:44,393 --> 00:42:48,593
of those extra release songs, which we
won't talk as much about, but like, I

645
00:42:48,593 --> 00:42:56,863
think I can really clearly discern the
Modest Mouse Decembrist bent in a lot

646
00:42:56,863 --> 00:43:04,423
of those songs of the kind of acoustic
guitar being a weird folksy troubadour

647
00:43:04,483 --> 00:43:09,873
in a fucked up reality thing that we were
all doing or that a lot or that a lot

648
00:43:09,873 --> 00:43:11,343
of those bands were doing for a while.

649
00:43:11,713 --> 00:43:13,743
You can feel a little bit
more of that come out.

650
00:43:14,093 --> 00:43:15,403
But it also just made me.

651
00:43:15,788 --> 00:43:21,798
Appreciate how dense dandelion gum
was when they had all of that to

652
00:43:21,798 --> 00:43:26,928
choose from it feels the appropriate
amount of dense without ever going

653
00:43:26,928 --> 00:43:29,748
kind of too strong out or simplistic.

654
00:43:29,963 --> 00:43:34,923
Which is a crazy thing to say about 16
or 17 distinct cuts of music like that.

655
00:43:35,033 --> 00:43:39,223
It's a lot of different flavors,
no pun intended, but it does.

656
00:43:39,833 --> 00:43:40,493
You're absolutely right.

657
00:43:40,493 --> 00:43:45,863
I feel like the exact right curation
and the exact right amount of things.

658
00:43:46,076 --> 00:43:50,706
So maybe to this end, I'd love to
talk about some things that just

659
00:43:50,706 --> 00:43:54,936
came to mind for me listening
to this, uh, some of which are.

660
00:43:55,020 --> 00:43:57,940
Conceptually related, some
of them are literal music.

661
00:43:58,129 --> 00:44:01,034
conceptually, this is one of those
moments where I'm just going to

662
00:44:01,034 --> 00:44:05,184
kind of share a thing that came up,
even if I don't know totally how

663
00:44:05,184 --> 00:44:06,924
to explain it, but it works for me.

664
00:44:07,344 --> 00:44:11,844
For whatever reason, listening to
this, especially after I settled

665
00:44:11,844 --> 00:44:17,584
into it a bit, This felt like
the show Adventure Time to me.

666
00:44:18,675 --> 00:44:19,795
okay, you're nodding, so

667
00:44:19,955 --> 00:44:21,585
Hundo P baby.

668
00:44:21,605 --> 00:44:22,465
yeah, yeah.

669
00:44:22,465 --> 00:44:22,815
yeah.

670
00:44:23,575 --> 00:44:30,655
I would talk about I think Cartoon
Network and Adult Swim Universe is

671
00:44:30,675 --> 00:44:33,272
a spiritual cousin of this big time.

672
00:44:33,690 --> 00:44:39,010
And yes, for the weirdness of things like
the, you know, Adult Swim bumpers between

673
00:44:39,010 --> 00:44:44,170
the shows and all the weird vibe and tone
stuff that they did, yes, that's true.

674
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:49,260
But also specifically the
way that Adventure Time is

675
00:44:49,940 --> 00:44:52,190
Can be a show for adults.

676
00:44:52,550 --> 00:44:56,660
They are also simultaneously
making an adult show for you.

677
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:04,860
But it's not, it's not that in the sense
that they are making a children's show

678
00:45:04,890 --> 00:45:10,240
with adult grotesque humor layered in
in a way that kids can't understand.

679
00:45:10,470 --> 00:45:15,100
See, to me much like Adventure Time or
something like that, no, it's just both.

680
00:45:15,140 --> 00:45:16,850
It's just both at the same time.

681
00:45:17,580 --> 00:45:22,950
It's just really well done, really well
conceptualized, and clever and imaginative

682
00:45:23,150 --> 00:45:28,290
in the way that captures both a child
and an adult who's willing to just

683
00:45:28,290 --> 00:45:32,560
sit down and watch something about the
Bubblegum Princess for just a moment,

684
00:45:32,810 --> 00:45:36,400
because actually, if you'll sit around
long enough in that show, they'll drop

685
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:40,270
some shit on you that'll make you think
for a minute, and it's pretty cool.

686
00:45:40,650 --> 00:45:41,070
Mike.

687
00:45:41,575 --> 00:45:43,705
That's what this all feels like to me.

688
00:45:43,715 --> 00:45:48,235
It's ostensibly ridiculous
on the surface of the thing.

689
00:45:48,345 --> 00:45:52,305
It doesn't pretend to be serious, it
doesn't try to convince you it's serious,

690
00:45:52,305 --> 00:45:57,187
but acting like it's not, it's not
ten serious people in a trench coat.

691
00:45:57,608 --> 00:46:04,137
it's just what it is, And you have
the ability to engage with it in a way

692
00:46:04,137 --> 00:46:10,397
that, like, feels good, in a way that's
hard to get to with other records that

693
00:46:10,397 --> 00:46:15,767
are moving you to a place, or telling
you something, or painting a picture.

694
00:46:16,387 --> 00:46:20,107
This is just, to me, creating
a lot more of a setting.

695
00:46:20,647 --> 00:46:27,602
And that is Bolstered by the reality that
much, much like my general experience

696
00:46:27,602 --> 00:46:31,482
in life, you don't know what the fuck
he's saying on this record anyway.

697
00:46:31,682 --> 00:46:35,592
And then once you realize that, and
you go look into the lyrics, cause you

698
00:46:35,602 --> 00:46:39,762
think, maybe there's a reason why I
can't totally understa No, there isn't.

699
00:46:40,392 --> 00:46:41,102
No, there isn't.

700
00:46:41,772 --> 00:46:44,172
The lyrics themselves, it's nothing.

701
00:46:44,202 --> 00:46:45,272
It's a bunch of nothing.

702
00:46:45,522 --> 00:46:50,112
It is like, artistic equivalent
of like, fucking Seinfeld.

703
00:46:50,312 --> 00:46:55,732
It's a thing about nothing that in
itself is cool because it exists that

704
00:46:55,732 --> 00:46:57,962
way with that level of nonchalance.

705
00:46:58,312 --> 00:47:03,487
And like, I had forgotten that that
was true about this record, immediately

706
00:47:03,487 --> 00:47:07,447
remembered it once we started listening
again, and like, found a way to lean

707
00:47:07,457 --> 00:47:10,067
all the way into that sensation of it.

708
00:47:10,837 --> 00:47:14,327
And I have missed this way of
listening to music, to be honest.

709
00:47:15,130 --> 00:47:18,679
so a handful of things totally
agree with the adventure time thing.

710
00:47:18,733 --> 00:47:23,772
I specifically called out that forever
heavy, like really exemplifies that.

711
00:47:23,772 --> 00:47:26,822
And I know we've, we've hit on
the, this opening track a number of

712
00:47:26,822 --> 00:47:32,282
times, but after there's a little
bit of vote quarter introduction.

713
00:47:32,987 --> 00:47:37,807
It dissipates into an instrumental
break just after the minute mark.

714
00:47:38,257 --> 00:47:42,687
And that's when it feels like the
curtains have been pulled back on

715
00:47:43,217 --> 00:47:45,337
the world, the adventure time world.

716
00:47:45,377 --> 00:47:49,495
And you can just sort of settle in
to your, you know, your jet pack

717
00:47:49,565 --> 00:47:53,006
roller coaster seat or whatever,
and take the sort of adventure ride

718
00:47:53,006 --> 00:47:54,660
with the thing, it really does.

719
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:55,840
It doesn't feel like.

720
00:47:56,122 --> 00:48:00,902
World building or or what it's
it's I'm really loving this

721
00:48:00,902 --> 00:48:05,272
idea of it's the opposite of
anything You know, it's not silly.

722
00:48:05,272 --> 00:48:06,072
It's not serious.

723
00:48:06,182 --> 00:48:07,112
It's unserious.

724
00:48:07,122 --> 00:48:11,158
It's the absence of it's interesting
that this record Aesthetically is

725
00:48:11,158 --> 00:48:15,390
so visual But like what comes to
mind for me when I think about that

726
00:48:15,390 --> 00:48:19,490
instrumental break and think about
you providing Really specific visual

727
00:48:19,490 --> 00:48:21,450
cue with the idea of adventure time.

728
00:48:22,050 --> 00:48:26,815
It's not literally calling to mind
the visuals of Adventure Time in

729
00:48:26,815 --> 00:48:32,020
my mind, but the spirit of it where
the instrumental break clears the

730
00:48:32,020 --> 00:48:39,870
visuals out of my field and invites
me to build my own visualizations.

731
00:48:40,970 --> 00:48:44,770
Like some Dream Corp LLC shit, you
know, like build, build as you go.

732
00:48:45,401 --> 00:48:47,947
so very aligned with you on that.

733
00:48:48,284 --> 00:48:53,574
I have a bit of a different tack on the
lyrics bit, and maybe I'm too much of

734
00:48:53,574 --> 00:48:58,164
a sucker for stuff like the creative
act, you know, the, the Rick Rubinesque.

735
00:48:58,554 --> 00:49:01,364
Ooh, yeah, it's, that's a
cleverly constructed sentence

736
00:49:01,404 --> 00:49:03,234
and I can build a philosophy.

737
00:49:03,569 --> 00:49:04,709
Or a religion around that.

738
00:49:04,709 --> 00:49:06,999
That's like, that's
all religion is, right?

739
00:49:06,999 --> 00:49:11,229
It's just good, good words designed to
point your consciousness in a direction.

740
00:49:12,171 --> 00:49:13,290
just manipulation.

741
00:49:13,916 --> 00:49:16,866
the lyrics do feel like
mantras to me though.

742
00:49:16,916 --> 00:49:22,626
And they're silly or like unserious
ones, but they feel like a way to

743
00:49:22,626 --> 00:49:28,210
reground and touch grass that old Jeff
Buckley touch grass thing again,  They

744
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:33,100
clear you out to prepare for the doing
your own visualization type of thing.

745
00:49:33,100 --> 00:49:36,880
So in Forever Heavy, something
like, you know, living in a field,

746
00:49:36,890 --> 00:49:39,680
you're forever heavy, lying in the
sun, you're forever heavy, chewing

747
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,300
all the gum, you're forever heavy.

748
00:49:42,130 --> 00:49:45,800
And just the repeating of that thing
and the simplicity of that thing.

749
00:49:46,250 --> 00:49:52,686
Dog, that's mindfulness 101 to me and
you and I are much more practiced in

750
00:49:52,686 --> 00:49:57,856
our discipline toward mindfulness now,
but I remember reading wherever you

751
00:49:57,856 --> 00:50:02,556
go, there you are and being like, Oh,
it's exactly what I thought it was.

752
00:50:02,606 --> 00:50:04,656
And it's nothing like
what I thought it was.

753
00:50:05,406 --> 00:50:09,426
And even just occupying those two thoughts
simultaneously is like the first step.

754
00:50:09,831 --> 00:50:12,021
In getting toward the
discipline of mindfulness.

755
00:50:13,491 --> 00:50:15,161
And then there's lying out here.

756
00:50:15,161 --> 00:50:17,731
We shine, melt me, melt me, melt me.

757
00:50:18,254 --> 00:50:22,904
That's definitely a mantra
or going back to aesthetics.

758
00:50:22,964 --> 00:50:27,317
You read the back cover of this vinyl
and you see, titles like jump into my

759
00:50:27,317 --> 00:50:31,257
mouth and breathe the stardust or when
the sun grows on your tongue dog i'm

760
00:50:31,257 --> 00:50:34,237
buying a record with song titles like
that sight unseen i don't care if it's

761
00:50:34,237 --> 00:50:39,289
the worst music i've ever heard in my
life kudos on making my imagination

762
00:50:39,289 --> 00:50:43,911
explode like a popsicle in my mouth
but in the jump into my mouth he says

763
00:50:43,971 --> 00:50:49,231
bring us hope start a sunrise we have
known and find our way home Mantra.

764
00:50:49,321 --> 00:50:49,781
Love it.

765
00:50:50,319 --> 00:50:55,439
and then, my favorite, When
the sun grows on your tongue,

766
00:50:55,539 --> 00:50:57,099
you won't want to stop him.

767
00:50:57,299 --> 00:50:58,319
You're gonna die.

768
00:50:58,399 --> 00:50:59,479
We're all gonna die.

769
00:51:00,107 --> 00:51:01,137
Come on, man.

770
00:51:02,008 --> 00:51:03,338
write all the time.

771
00:51:03,428 --> 00:51:11,068
And getting that dead simple is such
an act of pure trust in yourself.

772
00:51:11,358 --> 00:51:13,320
Or pure nonchalance.

773
00:51:13,357 --> 00:51:15,877
That whatever you say,
it doesn't matter anyway.

774
00:51:16,141 --> 00:51:20,171
I actually think that lyrically this
is the perfect intersection point

775
00:51:20,621 --> 00:51:25,500
for you and me because it exposes the
farce of caring about it in the like

776
00:51:25,500 --> 00:51:27,200
inverse way that Kurt Cobain did.

777
00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:29,860
Kurt Cobain was a silly lyric writer.

778
00:51:30,409 --> 00:51:33,199
where he was purposely trying
to subvert it all the time.

779
00:51:33,569 --> 00:51:35,519
This is like, maybe it's good.

780
00:51:35,529 --> 00:51:36,369
Maybe it's not.

781
00:51:36,399 --> 00:51:36,859
Whatever.

782
00:51:36,929 --> 00:51:37,749
I love.

783
00:51:38,249 --> 00:51:40,129
I never thought about
the lyrics once ever.

784
00:51:40,129 --> 00:51:44,459
I never worried or wondered about what he
was saying under the heavy vote quarter.

785
00:51:44,653 --> 00:51:49,886
but taking some time to think about it
made it even more interesting to me.

786
00:51:49,896 --> 00:51:54,308
Like it did enrich even though
it's not supposed to, but maybe

787
00:51:54,308 --> 00:51:55,368
it is, but maybe it doesn't.

788
00:51:55,368 --> 00:51:55,748
Who knows?

789
00:51:55,748 --> 00:51:56,288
Who cares?

790
00:51:57,098 --> 00:51:59,438
Like it's a no lose proposition, I guess.

791
00:51:59,478 --> 00:52:01,508
And that's just sort of
the brilliance of it.

792
00:52:02,745 --> 00:52:06,161
stuck out or surprised
you or gave you a vibe?

793
00:52:06,413 --> 00:52:06,933
A lot.

794
00:52:07,013 --> 00:52:11,443
I'll mention the music now, but I will
just say, I took a note that feels like

795
00:52:11,443 --> 00:52:16,143
it maps to what you were just explaining,
and I wrote that it feels like meditation

796
00:52:16,153 --> 00:52:20,073
for children to listen to this record, and

797
00:52:20,488 --> 00:52:21,818
Parentheses compliment.

798
00:52:21,963 --> 00:52:23,553
yeah, yeah, yes.

799
00:52:25,548 --> 00:52:29,911
meditation for children at its
own level is like more serious

800
00:52:29,911 --> 00:52:31,331
than meditation for adults.

801
00:52:31,351 --> 00:52:33,311
So I would be coming from
the opposite direction.

802
00:52:33,311 --> 00:52:36,221
But yes, definitely in a good way.

803
00:52:36,614 --> 00:52:40,699
and idea that these lyrics and words.

804
00:52:41,174 --> 00:52:43,684
Exist, but I don't have to attack.

805
00:52:43,734 --> 00:52:49,384
I don't have to hang the meaning of
the surrounding music on them in order

806
00:52:49,384 --> 00:52:51,464
to either get them or appreciate them.

807
00:52:51,984 --> 00:52:56,764
And yes, so to that end, yeah, we
are meeting exactly in the middle of

808
00:52:56,784 --> 00:53:01,104
the way that we often approach both
like lyrics and vocals and songs.

809
00:53:01,824 --> 00:53:04,654
This has been a fun moment, but I think.

810
00:53:04,831 --> 00:53:10,121
What shocked me even more was how
fast a simple synth line would

811
00:53:10,121 --> 00:53:11,661
take me somewhere else entirely.

812
00:53:12,831 --> 00:53:17,263
And to start with the one that
I've been hinting at a bit, but

813
00:53:17,263 --> 00:53:19,043
it's just was immediate for me.

814
00:53:19,623 --> 00:53:25,043
Forever Heavy has a really,
really, really similar Tempo and

815
00:53:25,043 --> 00:53:29,903
feel to the song Waterfalls by
Clam Casino off the Rainforest

816
00:53:29,903 --> 00:53:32,513
EP, which also came out in 2007.

817
00:53:33,183 --> 00:53:33,893
And like,

818
00:53:34,228 --> 00:53:38,488
Both like, if you were trying to
put the sounds in your mouth, both

819
00:53:38,488 --> 00:53:40,548
would have a, say a similar texture.

820
00:53:41,915 --> 00:53:42,315
You know what I

821
00:53:42,620 --> 00:53:43,400
well said!

822
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,530
And I mean that with all of my heart, yes!

823
00:53:47,225 --> 00:53:53,850
Yeah, and yes, in both records with
strong visual aesthetics associated with

824
00:53:53,850 --> 00:53:57,340
them, thanks to album art and thanks
to this particular moment in time where

825
00:53:57,340 --> 00:54:02,610
album art kind of still meant a thing
much more than it does these days.

826
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:07,070
But so Forever Heavy immediately
takes me in that direction.

827
00:54:08,115 --> 00:54:12,235
And then I start to feel out a few
other things that come to mind, some

828
00:54:12,265 --> 00:54:17,235
obvious, some a little bit more, this'll
be a fun pen to put in somebody's

829
00:54:17,505 --> 00:54:19,645
whatever, to go to a different record.

830
00:54:20,035 --> 00:54:20,425
But.

831
00:54:21,125 --> 00:54:25,935
You know, as you go along, even,
even songs like Sunlits you can draw

832
00:54:25,955 --> 00:54:30,765
out the Daft Punk record that would
come not long after this, right?

833
00:54:30,765 --> 00:54:32,175
The Random Access Memories.

834
00:54:32,365 --> 00:54:37,455
Like, you can, you can really hear it
and hear what would become some very

835
00:54:37,455 --> 00:54:43,914
popular, You know, a very popular record
in its own right, but you can hear that

836
00:54:44,074 --> 00:54:49,854
everyone was sort of open to that sort
of thing and, you know, it found its

837
00:54:50,404 --> 00:54:54,514
popular apex there in Daft Punk, but,

838
00:54:54,989 --> 00:55:00,116
That's so brilliant and such an internet
era thing that calls to mind, you know,

839
00:55:00,116 --> 00:55:04,716
we had a couple of years of death grips
really like exploding in the underground

840
00:55:04,716 --> 00:55:06,966
and then a year later we get Jesus

841
00:55:07,636 --> 00:55:12,392
like Daft Punk trying to make a
thing into the zeitgeist, which is.

842
00:55:12,983 --> 00:55:16,963
Less of a thing now that everything is
everywhere all the time, but there were

843
00:55:16,963 --> 00:55:20,883
still some of these moments of like,
this feels like a genuinely new thing.

844
00:55:20,893 --> 00:55:23,913
Who's going to be the
person to commercialize it.

845
00:55:24,193 --> 00:55:28,684
yep, so then kind of smaller,
outcroppings almost from that.

846
00:55:29,409 --> 00:55:35,059
When I think about the stuff that reminds
me of Random Access Memory, but also like

847
00:55:35,069 --> 00:55:41,419
Tron era Daft Punk from this record, it
also reminds me of one of the big boy

848
00:55:41,419 --> 00:55:46,449
records that he dropped, so Sir Lucius
Leftfoot, The Son of Chico Dusty it

849
00:55:46,474 --> 00:55:48,204
That was the, that's the first one.

850
00:55:48,244 --> 00:55:50,134
That's the like tangerine.

851
00:55:50,144 --> 00:55:50,364
You ain't

852
00:55:50,369 --> 00:55:51,739
yeah, uh, yeah,

853
00:55:51,994 --> 00:55:53,304
God, that's such a good record.

854
00:55:53,689 --> 00:55:57,199
so it is, and it's great in
its own right, but it, yeah.

855
00:55:57,199 --> 00:55:57,349
Thank you.

856
00:55:57,669 --> 00:56:03,589
You will hear almost one to one the,
Oh, if I can get a good synth hook

857
00:56:03,609 --> 00:56:07,949
and a little vocoder thing going,
I've got a hook for an entire song.

858
00:56:08,419 --> 00:56:11,029
And I think it's cool
to connect those dots.

859
00:56:11,179 --> 00:56:14,999
I'm sure just a melody or a
hook at some point just reminded

860
00:56:14,999 --> 00:56:16,299
me of something specific.

861
00:56:16,519 --> 00:56:20,619
But the more I listened to it,
the more I started to feel like I

862
00:56:20,619 --> 00:56:26,349
could actually build out a world
of synth and vocoder stuff that.

863
00:56:26,711 --> 00:56:31,011
would never go too far in one direction
or another, but really encompassed

864
00:56:31,011 --> 00:56:36,651
a surprising mixture of artists who
almost Occupied this type of music

865
00:56:36,731 --> 00:56:40,801
for a time, and then sort of moved
in other directions throughout their

866
00:56:40,801 --> 00:56:44,811
career, whereas Black Mouth Super
Rainbow, and tobacco in general, just

867
00:56:44,811 --> 00:56:50,331
like, was stationed here, at this time,
doing just the weird version of it.

868
00:56:50,842 --> 00:56:58,105
but, I think also just gives some
context to how something this oddball,

869
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:03,666
Could have been in an indie zeitgeist
right at this time, there was a lot

870
00:57:03,666 --> 00:57:10,556
of uniformity in the, this little
synth type genre that was gaining some

871
00:57:10,556 --> 00:57:14,496
popularity during this time and it just
reminded me of a ton of that stuff.

872
00:57:15,106 --> 00:57:17,271
And then on a longer time scale.

873
00:57:17,470 --> 00:57:21,240
This record made me start
doing weird math equations with

874
00:57:21,250 --> 00:57:22,620
bands that we've talked about.

875
00:57:23,843 --> 00:57:28,333
and I think hopefully this will either
invite some people in who aren't

876
00:57:28,333 --> 00:57:34,019
convinced yet, or send some people
back out to other manifestations

877
00:57:34,089 --> 00:57:35,689
of some of this weird energy.

878
00:57:36,409 --> 00:57:43,569
One equation that came to mind was they
have King Gizzard energy with Canned

879
00:57:43,569 --> 00:57:50,919
Stamina with The unseriousness of like a
Sufjan Stevens where it's like everything

880
00:57:50,919 --> 00:57:55,619
is weird, but good But we're here for
it and we really like it and we want you

881
00:57:55,619 --> 00:58:00,269
to like it But we don't care too much
if you don't like it But also we will

882
00:58:00,269 --> 00:58:04,669
now be doing this without stopping for
a significant period of time and you can

883
00:58:04,679 --> 00:58:09,014
come along or you can be bothered that
we're going to play this one kind of

884
00:58:09,314 --> 00:58:13,914
singular piece of music for a pretty long
time and repeat some really good hooks

885
00:58:13,924 --> 00:58:18,504
over and over until you start to feel
mildly hypnotized by the whole thing.

886
00:58:18,919 --> 00:58:20,089
I love that equation.

887
00:58:20,089 --> 00:58:23,269
I would add one variable
and that's swish a house.

888
00:58:23,309 --> 00:58:28,589
It's like if you took a live bootleg of
that super group all on one stage, last

889
00:58:28,589 --> 00:58:33,659
Waltz style, uh, like we just saw King
is so like silver cord King is where they

890
00:58:33,659 --> 00:58:40,379
bring out the big tray of wires and knobs
and do dads and they get Sufjan out there

891
00:58:40,379 --> 00:58:43,709
doing some like weird stuff and demo.

892
00:58:43,994 --> 00:58:46,904
Doing some like stuff as well.

893
00:58:47,384 --> 00:58:51,704
And then you took that whole recording
and you base boosted it and you slowed it.

894
00:58:51,704 --> 00:58:53,144
Way the hell down.

895
00:58:53,354 --> 00:58:54,764
That's black mo.

896
00:58:54,764 --> 00:58:55,454
Super rainbow.

897
00:58:55,454 --> 00:58:59,369
Where you're like, I like
you, but you're crazy man.

898
00:59:00,947 --> 00:59:03,907
Was there something in that tea?

899
00:59:06,347 --> 00:59:08,477
because you could adored in your neck.

900
00:59:09,847 --> 00:59:10,927
That's awesome.

901
00:59:13,014 --> 00:59:14,164
What else stood out to you?

902
00:59:14,552 --> 00:59:16,022
I would say two things.

903
00:59:16,857 --> 00:59:19,097
one general analog mess.

904
00:59:19,278 --> 00:59:25,863
and tobacco has had sort of like, has
been on a spectrum of his relationship

905
00:59:25,863 --> 00:59:29,943
with analog mess and like feeling
entrapped by it eventually in his career.

906
00:59:29,943 --> 00:59:32,133
But it's like, it's very
much the thing here.

907
00:59:32,391 --> 00:59:38,121
There was a great, if maybe a little
pretentious essay that I read that

908
00:59:38,471 --> 00:59:40,331
basically the thesis of it was.

909
00:59:40,806 --> 00:59:47,826
The analogness of what is like ostensibly
a synth or electronic record makes you

910
00:59:47,826 --> 00:59:52,756
contemplate its relationship to matter
and energy like analog in the digital era.

911
00:59:53,396 --> 00:59:59,776
There's also a drawn out analogy to
the films of Federico Fellini in there.

912
00:59:59,796 --> 01:00:03,826
So it's, you want to talk
about the elitism and nihilism

913
01:00:03,836 --> 01:00:06,286
or Boris it's a mid bite.

914
01:00:06,589 --> 01:00:13,160
it's a mid body snake by, the analogous,
I think you can really hear in here's

915
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:17,660
another great title, neon syrup for the
cemetery sisters, where the first thing

916
01:00:17,660 --> 01:00:22,600
you hear is a lot of headroom in the
recording and like tape hiss and stuff.

917
01:00:22,650 --> 01:00:25,210
And then it continues to be in the song.

918
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,340
There's also subtleties.

919
01:00:29,768 --> 01:00:33,738
The analogous doesn't really try
to draw attention to itself where

920
01:00:34,318 --> 01:00:35,928
I contrast it with a Jack white.

921
01:00:36,323 --> 01:00:39,083
Where, you know, elephant had
the slapped right on the thing.

922
01:00:39,083 --> 01:00:43,083
Like this whole thing was
recorded with tape in one room.

923
01:00:43,673 --> 01:00:46,743
One man physically carried
it with his bare hands.

924
01:00:47,333 --> 01:00:50,103
You know, it's not that
sticky sort of thing.

925
01:00:50,153 --> 01:00:52,903
All love to Jack and especially Meg White.

926
01:00:53,330 --> 01:00:55,843
all the analogness is subtle.

927
01:00:56,065 --> 01:00:57,895
in my opinion, mostly
subtle in my opinion.

928
01:00:57,895 --> 01:01:01,725
So like the back half of Lollipop's
Accord, another great title.

929
01:01:02,127 --> 01:01:02,577
there's.

930
01:01:02,745 --> 01:01:06,985
Really tasteful delay and reverb in
the way like there's a lot of like

931
01:01:06,985 --> 01:01:12,845
beat switch, clearly some hip hop
culture influence that makes it really

932
01:01:12,845 --> 01:01:14,105
different than sixties and seventies.

933
01:01:14,115 --> 01:01:14,715
Psychedelia.

934
01:01:14,715 --> 01:01:16,535
It's like kind of
refracted back into itself.

935
01:01:16,759 --> 01:01:18,969
so some delay and reverb
and lollipops accord.

936
01:01:18,999 --> 01:01:21,009
And then in, they live in the meadow.

937
01:01:21,449 --> 01:01:25,789
There's a, the drum pattern and then
it back mask and it does that in the

938
01:01:25,789 --> 01:01:28,346
loop over and over, but they're not.

939
01:01:28,366 --> 01:01:33,042
aggressive, there's subtle
analog moments and effects.

940
01:01:33,424 --> 01:01:36,669
And then I think the other thing that
jumps out at me is obviously like synth

941
01:01:36,669 --> 01:01:43,334
is the star here, but it could be really
one trick, but there is a variety of

942
01:01:43,334 --> 01:01:45,704
scent, tones, tastes, moments, whatever.

943
01:01:46,194 --> 01:01:49,184
So three that I would
call out really quickly.

944
01:01:49,362 --> 01:01:55,548
the first one being when the sun
grows on your tongue, there's Nice

945
01:01:55,548 --> 01:01:59,328
modulation on the high end synth
and then great tone on the low end.

946
01:01:59,798 --> 01:02:04,338
Never got to see these guys live, but
hearing the low end on that song, I

947
01:02:04,338 --> 01:02:08,398
was really imagining what it would be
like to hear that, like, almost like if

948
01:02:08,398 --> 01:02:12,128
they had a Leslie cabinet or something
where you can really sort of feel the

949
01:02:12,224 --> 01:02:14,666
chunkiness and the vibrato of the low end.

950
01:02:14,726 --> 01:02:15,776
A really nice tone.

951
01:02:16,816 --> 01:02:20,046
And then on the next, I actually
think this is a three track

952
01:02:20,046 --> 01:02:22,436
sequence that I'm about to say.

953
01:02:22,746 --> 01:02:23,116
Yes.

954
01:02:23,697 --> 01:02:26,347
spinning cotton candy in
a shack made of shingles.

955
01:02:26,757 --> 01:02:27,857
Say that three times fast.

956
01:02:28,060 --> 01:02:34,010
the synth plays a more ambient role and
it swirls around a really tight bass, B

957
01:02:34,010 --> 01:02:40,289
A S S E bass of a really good sounding
sort of Spector or Ringo Starr drum loop

958
01:02:40,297 --> 01:02:42,653
and, slightly blown out acoustic guitar.

959
01:02:42,757 --> 01:02:44,500
So it, plays the right function.

960
01:02:44,510 --> 01:02:47,230
We talked on the me without you
episode about how the different songs

961
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:49,090
have different instrument stars.

962
01:02:49,201 --> 01:02:52,211
it's sort of a bit of that
flavor, you know, where it's not

963
01:02:52,221 --> 01:02:53,651
the same one trick every time.

964
01:02:54,261 --> 01:02:57,630
And then one of my favorite songs
on the record, or certainly like

965
01:02:57,630 --> 01:03:03,502
my favorite black moth archetype of
layers, uh, is in drippy eye where it's.

966
01:03:04,062 --> 01:03:10,832
Mellotron against monosynth and
then the we like that, that type

967
01:03:10,832 --> 01:03:15,646
of thing that, feels like a real
signature sound for tobacco.

968
01:03:16,361 --> 01:03:20,361
another example of that would be on
that besides record extra flavor dark

969
01:03:20,371 --> 01:03:24,497
forest joggers, which theremin thing.

970
01:03:24,862 --> 01:03:29,184
So would be very easy for this
to be like synth AC DC, where

971
01:03:29,184 --> 01:03:30,084
it's like, here's the thing.

972
01:03:30,094 --> 01:03:30,914
Here's the thing again.

973
01:03:30,924 --> 01:03:31,694
Here's the thing again.

974
01:03:31,704 --> 01:03:32,884
Here's the thing at a different tempo.

975
01:03:32,904 --> 01:03:36,284
Here's the thing at the same tempo as
the first song, but inverted or whatever.

976
01:03:36,898 --> 01:03:41,747
it's a very tight formula, but but
they write it on the board and lots of

977
01:03:41,747 --> 01:03:43,337
different fonts or something like that.

978
01:03:43,388 --> 01:03:45,220
and that keeps it really interesting.

979
01:03:45,295 --> 01:03:48,935
but it's all got like a real cohesive
vocabulary because sent this though.

980
01:03:49,199 --> 01:03:50,289
the real anchor of the thing.

981
01:03:50,610 --> 01:03:53,020
Cohesive vocabulary is a
good way of describing it.

982
01:03:53,372 --> 01:03:57,535
I'd also say That I'm surprised
to say, this is kind of like an

983
01:03:57,545 --> 01:03:59,255
audiophile record potentially.

984
01:03:59,895 --> 01:04:06,595
I don't really understand how that
comes to be with what we've talked

985
01:04:06,605 --> 01:04:12,451
about so far in the, nonchalance with
which this was constructed and produced.

986
01:04:12,801 --> 01:04:16,025
Not to say there's not Seriousness
in the artistry, right?

987
01:04:16,025 --> 01:04:20,495
We're not trying to misrepresent
that so much as there is not a lot

988
01:04:20,495 --> 01:04:23,175
of talk about the seriousness of it.

989
01:04:23,435 --> 01:04:27,355
And most of the context that we
have indicates a sort of open

990
01:04:27,355 --> 01:04:28,855
handedness about the whole thing.

991
01:04:29,265 --> 01:04:33,885
So to have created something
that is sonically interesting

992
01:04:33,915 --> 01:04:37,505
enough in this particular
moment in time with these tools.

993
01:04:37,629 --> 01:04:43,269
To have it become something that is truly
interesting to listen to on different

994
01:04:43,939 --> 01:04:51,529
audio delivery devices is a shock and
mostly a delight, but a huge shock and

995
01:04:51,669 --> 01:04:56,630
to your point or comment about like on
some of the songs, theoretically being

996
01:04:56,630 --> 01:05:01,310
able to like turn up, uh, certain low
ends and different bits about it, like

997
01:05:01,567 --> 01:05:07,543
this, as much as any other record I
can remember lately, uh, will, Change

998
01:05:07,593 --> 01:05:14,948
its face if you change its EQ, it will
shapeshift based on whatever you're

999
01:05:14,948 --> 01:05:22,698
listening to it on, whatever that space
is and moves with your attention as well.

1000
01:05:23,023 --> 01:05:27,122
definitely one of those,  uh, once
you start thinking about a particular

1001
01:05:27,122 --> 01:05:30,272
car, all of a sudden, everywhere
you go, you can start to find

1002
01:05:30,272 --> 01:05:32,002
that car wherever you're looking.

1003
01:05:32,312 --> 01:05:35,812
Similarly, you can hook yourself
into particular aspects of this

1004
01:05:35,812 --> 01:05:40,662
record to me, like a lot easier
than most of the intentionality

1005
01:05:40,662 --> 01:05:44,402
you have to bring to focus in on
something particular on other records.

1006
01:05:44,770 --> 01:05:45,680
and so this is.

1007
01:05:46,110 --> 01:05:52,720
Maybe counterintuitively both a tremendous
like audiophile headphone record and also

1008
01:05:52,900 --> 01:05:58,900
not necessarily the easiest one to get a
lot out of by doing like a sitting active

1009
01:05:59,070 --> 01:06:01,040
intentional listen to the whole thing.

1010
01:06:01,410 --> 01:06:03,810
I'm not saying you can't, but it's.

1011
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:10,360
It's a different experience than trying
to trace, you know, a jazz master

1012
01:06:10,610 --> 01:06:14,900
through their particular instrument
and how they contribute to a record.

1013
01:06:15,170 --> 01:06:18,320
It's a little bit more like, I
wonder what's going to occur to

1014
01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:21,460
me this time and just letting
yourself cruise through it that way.

1015
01:06:21,844 --> 01:06:23,124
Music for airports.

1016
01:06:23,229 --> 01:06:24,129
Inside your brain.

1017
01:06:24,334 --> 01:06:29,364
We've mentioned this a little bit, but
just to sort of say directly then, we try

1018
01:06:29,384 --> 01:06:36,544
to, as much as possible, bring forward
a sense of artist intent, as we can draw

1019
01:06:36,554 --> 01:06:42,115
from, generally speaking, interviews with
the artists, or interviews with historians

1020
01:06:42,125 --> 01:06:43,865
about a given record, or whatever.

1021
01:06:44,085 --> 01:06:47,680
First of all, there are no
Fuckin Black Moth Super Rainbow

1022
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:49,720
historians that I know of.

1023
01:06:49,780 --> 01:06:50,720
So settle down.

1024
01:06:51,250 --> 01:06:54,420
I think we're, we're becoming
card carrying after this episode.

1025
01:06:55,730 --> 01:06:56,330
Maybe so.

1026
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:57,750
This an husker do.

1027
01:06:57,770 --> 01:06:59,010
Much to your chagrin.

1028
01:06:59,930 --> 01:07:00,210
Um.

1029
01:07:01,007 --> 01:07:06,707
so we have, um, a dearth of, of all
of that source material here, not only

1030
01:07:06,717 --> 01:07:13,147
because this isn't necessarily an artist
that reached the scale of impact of a

1031
01:07:13,147 --> 01:07:19,287
lot of the folks we talked about but also
because, like we said, when, when Tobacco

1032
01:07:19,327 --> 01:07:24,237
does get interviewed about this, he gives
a verbal shrug in your general direction

1033
01:07:24,457 --> 01:07:28,217
and basically sort of says like, well,
it works, And you're asking me questions.

1034
01:07:28,217 --> 01:07:30,627
So who won this competition?

1035
01:07:31,789 --> 01:07:36,799
so we don't have a lot to draw from
nor a lot that we have to like stand

1036
01:07:36,799 --> 01:07:39,769
up as a structure to like understand
what's happening on this record.

1037
01:07:40,179 --> 01:07:43,699
Uh, and that's neither good nor bad,
but just a thing that changes depending

1038
01:07:43,699 --> 01:07:44,999
on which music we're approaching.

1039
01:07:45,339 --> 01:07:53,859
But there is a quote vague concept album
happening here that is through the lyrics

1040
01:07:53,859 --> 01:07:57,969
that we've already talked about that
are In a sense, both, like we've said,

1041
01:07:58,199 --> 01:08:05,739
both introspective mantras and sort of
nonsensical stories in their own right.

1042
01:08:06,219 --> 01:08:12,239
There is a central theme of, uh,
witches in the forest creating candy.

1043
01:08:14,234 --> 01:08:14,684
Sure.

1044
01:08:14,809 --> 01:08:15,329
Sure.

1045
01:08:16,519 --> 01:08:19,729
Um, you could have said almost
any combination of words

1046
01:08:19,959 --> 01:08:21,119
there and I would believe you.

1047
01:08:21,429 --> 01:08:24,569
But you can at least have that
in mind and sort of apply it.

1048
01:08:25,059 --> 01:08:26,406
And I think.

1049
01:08:26,921 --> 01:08:32,831
Understanding that that, as far as
we know, is the maximum amount of

1050
01:08:32,871 --> 01:08:37,221
intentionality that has been applied
on a thematic or narrative level,

1051
01:08:37,775 --> 01:08:41,525
is sort of an important fact in
and of itself to carry into this.

1052
01:08:41,835 --> 01:08:44,435
The music is dense and
cool and interesting.

1053
01:08:44,725 --> 01:08:48,105
A lot of times we talk about music
that's dense and cool and interesting.

1054
01:08:48,105 --> 01:08:52,035
That maps to a theme or
narrative that is also such.

1055
01:08:52,395 --> 01:08:53,165
Not true.

1056
01:08:53,485 --> 01:08:54,325
Really here.

1057
01:08:54,725 --> 01:08:57,355
And that is a nice break.

1058
01:08:57,815 --> 01:09:00,705
I would like to just hear a
little bit more about witches in

1059
01:09:00,705 --> 01:09:03,215
the forest making candy for now.

1060
01:09:03,585 --> 01:09:08,905
Take me on this weird psychedelic
trip into midnight gospel level.

1061
01:09:09,135 --> 01:09:14,495
Weird things where I can go back and
remember just like that show, what it

1062
01:09:14,495 --> 01:09:19,965
feels like to be both terrified and
settled all at the same time somehow.

1063
01:09:20,355 --> 01:09:27,262
And like that feeling gets brought out
here, but I think just as we try to point

1064
01:09:27,272 --> 01:09:33,272
people towards underlying consistent
truths about music, we can also point you

1065
01:09:33,682 --> 01:09:36,332
in directions on certain records and go.

1066
01:09:36,667 --> 01:09:38,177
You don't have to go over there.

1067
01:09:38,767 --> 01:09:39,767
There is nothing there.

1068
01:09:39,767 --> 01:09:40,191
Pfft.

1069
01:09:40,191 --> 01:09:40,616
Ha

1070
01:09:40,712 --> 01:09:41,072
Yeah.

1071
01:09:41,482 --> 01:09:46,192
I think it's just a show don't tell
way of saying, come with me and you'll

1072
01:09:46,192 --> 01:09:48,112
be in a world of pure imagination.

1073
01:09:49,507 --> 01:09:55,677
Essentially, like, take it as a mentor of
mine has said many times, seriously, but

1074
01:09:55,677 --> 01:10:02,958
not literally and the sort of esoterica
of all that extends to the commitment

1075
01:10:02,968 --> 01:10:08,038
to remaining esoteric so that you will
just get out of your head and into your

1076
01:10:08,038 --> 01:10:15,098
imagination of the music extends to their
refusal to use their government names.

1077
01:10:15,479 --> 01:10:20,539
So instead of, you know, Slipknot zero
through nine, you have Tobacco or Thomas

1078
01:10:20,539 --> 01:10:25,429
Feck, you have the Seven Fields of
Ophelion for Maureen Boyle, who's also

1079
01:10:25,429 --> 01:10:27,929
a great photographer with an Etsy store.

1080
01:10:27,929 --> 01:10:28,379
Look her up.

1081
01:10:29,099 --> 01:10:31,469
If or not, who's the drummer, Donna Kyler.

1082
01:10:32,202 --> 01:10:39,022
Steve sleeve, I assume, but all caps, STV,
SLV that's Steve Rydell, also of the hood

1083
01:10:39,032 --> 01:10:42,772
internet, the early tens mashup Kings.

1084
01:10:43,242 --> 01:10:50,622
And, um, in another late aughts,
early tens artifact the Tumblr

1085
01:10:50,622 --> 01:10:55,632
site album tacos, where they just
insert tacos in the album artwork.

1086
01:10:56,187 --> 01:10:56,627
That's it.

1087
01:10:56,697 --> 01:10:57,287
That's the bit.

1088
01:10:57,377 --> 01:10:57,987
That's the tweet.

1089
01:10:58,797 --> 01:11:03,307
and someone who I could find virtually
no information on whatsoever, who also

1090
01:11:03,677 --> 01:11:07,807
hung in the back at the live shows,
the other synth player, PonyDiver.

1091
01:11:09,527 --> 01:11:12,287
So wherever you are PonyDiver,
I hope you're doing well, man.

1092
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:15,739
Someone just went, I am.

1093
01:11:15,919 --> 01:11:16,499
Thank you.

1094
01:11:17,689 --> 01:11:17,989
Yeah.

1095
01:11:17,989 --> 01:11:18,804
I

1096
01:11:19,174 --> 01:11:20,384
not listening to this.

1097
01:11:20,384 --> 01:11:22,539
He's a, he's a coder or something.

1098
01:11:22,539 --> 01:11:25,004
He's doing something totally
different now and just making,

1099
01:11:26,134 --> 01:11:28,434
making, making music for fun.

1100
01:11:28,619 --> 01:11:30,599
I don't think I've ever
wanted you to be wrong more.

1101
01:11:31,644 --> 01:11:32,994
I'm going to remember this moment.

1102
01:11:33,074 --> 01:11:36,724
I hope to hear from
Pony Driver, Pony Diver.

1103
01:11:36,764 --> 01:11:38,314
I hope to hear from this individual.

1104
01:11:38,644 --> 01:11:41,124
If you get this far into
it, we think this is great.

1105
01:11:43,089 --> 01:11:47,359
I can hardly imagine that there is
an artist who would be less likely

1106
01:11:47,359 --> 01:11:51,659
to listen to a podcast episode
about themselves than tobacco or

1107
01:11:51,659 --> 01:11:53,429
any of these people in his orbit.

1108
01:11:54,618 --> 01:12:00,258
I think he would rather pull his
exoskeleton inside out than endure

1109
01:12:00,258 --> 01:12:01,478
what we are doing right now.

1110
01:12:03,028 --> 01:12:04,918
This is what, this is for everybody else.

1111
01:12:05,213 --> 01:12:06,803
Tremendous vote of confidence.

1112
01:12:08,953 --> 01:12:16,503
I think then, now that we have probably
effectively touched on the Nonchalant

1113
01:12:16,503 --> 01:12:21,423
weirdness across the board of all of
this stuff, down to just, like you said,

1114
01:12:21,423 --> 01:12:25,263
just not even actually knowing who the
fuck is in this band at any given time,

1115
01:12:25,263 --> 01:12:28,033
or necessarily what they're doing.

1116
01:12:29,783 --> 01:12:36,083
I think a few things sort of come out to
me as where we can start going from here.

1117
01:12:36,433 --> 01:12:42,020
And again, we, as a matter of sort of
principle, try to stay really disciplined

1118
01:12:42,020 --> 01:12:47,970
to the idea of, not only talking about
how to think about a record and take

1119
01:12:47,970 --> 01:12:53,190
it in fresh, but then we try to talk
about, intent and influence and how

1120
01:12:53,190 --> 01:12:55,080
you can pay a lot of attention to that.

1121
01:12:55,260 --> 01:12:58,280
And then further, you know,
for, you know, so many of the

1122
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:00,320
artists that we cover, like the.

1123
01:13:00,665 --> 01:13:07,545
Long tale of influence across music and
other forms of art, and then everything

1124
01:13:07,545 --> 01:13:12,554
else that that sort of downstream has
kicked off, not to sell anyone short,

1125
01:13:12,674 --> 01:13:18,204
including the actual and, legitimate
influence this band has had on others.

1126
01:13:18,694 --> 01:13:23,218
At the same time, once again, the, raw
amount of source material that we're

1127
01:13:23,218 --> 01:13:27,608
drawing from here is just fundamentally
different because of not only this artist,

1128
01:13:27,618 --> 01:13:31,778
but this record and how it sits with the
other types of records that we cover.

1129
01:13:31,968 --> 01:13:36,508
So, with that being said, I think a few
things are worth going to from here.

1130
01:13:36,688 --> 01:13:42,973
So, one would be Just making sure that
we hit on the sort of tools of recording

1131
01:13:43,173 --> 01:13:47,273
we've talked about since and vocoders
But going just a little bit further

1132
01:13:47,273 --> 01:13:51,833
into that and mentioning especially
with vocoders I think we both come up

1133
01:13:51,833 --> 01:13:54,483
with some some ways for people to go.

1134
01:13:54,493 --> 01:13:55,153
What is that?

1135
01:13:55,383 --> 01:14:00,893
Again, it's in all of these other songs
that you're thinking of and it's, it's

1136
01:14:00,893 --> 01:14:03,793
got a real interesting lineage of usage.

1137
01:14:04,503 --> 01:14:07,843
So talking a little bit about those
instruments but then also just maybe

1138
01:14:07,843 --> 01:14:12,193
quickly covering both the maybe things
that weren't direct influences on this

1139
01:14:12,193 --> 01:14:17,193
man, but like we've talked about all
the genres around what they're doing

1140
01:14:17,193 --> 01:14:19,233
here all the way from the sixties on up.

1141
01:14:19,648 --> 01:14:21,288
Spiritual ascendance.

1142
01:14:22,178 --> 01:14:28,046
and then, maybe going directly then
into a fast forward future of where

1143
01:14:28,046 --> 01:14:29,646
can you allow this to take you?

1144
01:14:30,036 --> 01:14:33,926
Um, I think all of those things sort
of operate more closely to one another

1145
01:14:34,166 --> 01:14:35,846
than some other records that we cover.

1146
01:14:36,126 --> 01:14:42,251
Uh, and on top of it, the exercise of,
Focusing on something particular in this

1147
01:14:42,251 --> 01:14:47,099
record and then allowing yourself to
discover new things from this record.

1148
01:14:47,399 --> 01:14:51,019
Those exercises are also more
closely intertwined, I think here

1149
01:14:51,279 --> 01:14:54,569
than on other records where those
can sort of be separate exercises.

1150
01:14:54,949 --> 01:14:59,049
So mid proposing that kind of
structure from here on out but I know

1151
01:14:59,049 --> 01:15:02,869
that we wanted to touch on things
like the vocoders in particular.

1152
01:15:03,198 --> 01:15:07,218
You mentioned a song under
Vocoders that kind of excited

1153
01:15:07,218 --> 01:15:08,288
me that you brought this up.

1154
01:15:08,548 --> 01:15:12,358
And now I want to know how all these songs
are related to one another in your head.

1155
01:15:12,783 --> 01:15:13,623
Which one are you talking

1156
01:15:13,748 --> 01:15:15,028
Oh, Hide and Seek, man.

1157
01:15:15,318 --> 01:15:21,158
The, to me the most underappreciated
thing that was very popular for a minute.

1158
01:15:21,388 --> 01:15:22,688
That song rips.

1159
01:15:22,858 --> 01:15:26,088
And I know that people ended
up just calling it the trippy

1160
01:15:26,088 --> 01:15:31,348
song because it showed up on a
WB show or some shit one time.

1161
01:15:31,498 --> 01:15:32,988
Something like that, I don't know.

1162
01:15:33,138 --> 01:15:34,838
But like, I legitimately think

1163
01:15:34,943 --> 01:15:36,993
The OC fans are gonna be mad at you, bro.

1164
01:15:38,068 --> 01:15:39,038
That's what it was.

1165
01:15:41,453 --> 01:15:44,883
They're too busy not
listening to this podcast.

1166
01:15:44,883 --> 01:15:48,043
What are OC fans doing now?

1167
01:15:49,073 --> 01:15:53,993
Adam Brody just had a big
thing on the SAG AFTRA awards.

1168
01:15:55,033 --> 01:15:57,483
He and Leighton Meester
just had a big moment.

1169
01:15:58,143 --> 01:16:01,303
So very weird that you're bringing
the OC back into my consciousness.

1170
01:16:01,303 --> 01:16:04,153
Or maybe I inadvertently
am with Imogen Heap.

1171
01:16:05,317 --> 01:16:08,747
So image in heaps hide and
seek, not technically a vocoder

1172
01:16:09,682 --> 01:16:10,232
Yes.

1173
01:16:10,527 --> 01:16:14,247
Or, you know, so I've been told,
but like, let's say in the realm of

1174
01:16:14,577 --> 01:16:17,197
sort of keyboardy vocal effectors

1175
01:16:18,002 --> 01:16:18,302
Yep.

1176
01:16:18,547 --> 01:16:23,857
that aren't synthesized vocals that
are not Peter Frampton tube talk

1177
01:16:23,897 --> 01:16:24,307
box.

1178
01:16:24,902 --> 01:16:25,462
Thank you.

1179
01:16:25,462 --> 01:16:33,092
Yes.

1180
01:16:33,703 --> 01:16:36,663
Imogen heaps, hide and
seek earth, wind and fires.

1181
01:16:36,663 --> 01:16:38,913
Let's groove yellows.

1182
01:16:38,933 --> 01:16:43,163
Mr. Blue sky sky, which uses it in a
little bit more of a talk boxy fashion

1183
01:16:43,173 --> 01:16:44,993
around the guitar solo and stuff.

1184
01:16:45,552 --> 01:16:50,082
craft works to the robots, which
uses it in the, in like probably

1185
01:16:50,082 --> 01:16:54,379
the most literal way of all of these
tracks, Tame Impalas, let it happen.

1186
01:16:54,451 --> 01:16:59,761
I am loathe, I will say, toward drawing
people to Tame Impala in comparison

1187
01:16:59,761 --> 01:17:04,841
to this band because I think it's like
a cheap wink at modern psychedelia.

1188
01:17:05,121 --> 01:17:06,751
Both artists are great.

1189
01:17:07,491 --> 01:17:12,381
Kevin Parker and Thomas Feck, both like
singular visionary artists, but like, I

1190
01:17:12,391 --> 01:17:18,531
don't want the, the Tame Impala tractor
beam orbit anywhere near this cause

1191
01:17:18,531 --> 01:17:20,631
it's like entirely different energies.

1192
01:17:21,381 --> 01:17:25,002
It's like different mood ring
colors, I'll say, Much respect

1193
01:17:25,002 --> 01:17:27,347
to both Neil Young's album.

1194
01:17:27,347 --> 01:17:30,323
Trans has a lot of great vocoder on it.

1195
01:17:30,903 --> 01:17:34,770
And then trans AMS album, we're
probably going to talk about like.

1196
01:17:35,615 --> 01:17:37,085
Krautrock type stuff.

1197
01:17:37,255 --> 01:17:38,375
Motoric type stuff.

1198
01:17:38,375 --> 01:17:43,025
Trans Am was a great post
rock slash motoric band.

1199
01:17:43,874 --> 01:17:48,304
also really, I think the vision
of mostly one person as well.

1200
01:17:48,304 --> 01:17:51,294
They have a record called Future World
where there's some good vocoder on it.

1201
01:17:52,104 --> 01:17:57,239
the other really, really big example has
become Especially big thanks to TikTok

1202
01:17:57,839 --> 01:18:02,919
and I didn't make the connection until
somebody took me to see her at Big Ears.

1203
01:18:02,929 --> 01:18:04,839
Here's, here's the Big Ears effect again.

1204
01:18:05,039 --> 01:18:07,859
See me being like a huge
evangelist for this festival.

1205
01:18:08,219 --> 01:18:13,069
Laurie Anderson with Oh Superman,
which is the TikTok sound where

1206
01:18:13,109 --> 01:18:17,319
people are like telling spooky
stories about relatives who died and

1207
01:18:17,319 --> 01:18:19,944
stuff like So stuff from the beyond.

1208
01:18:19,944 --> 01:18:24,074
So there's like an ethereal
trippy quality to that.

1209
01:18:24,074 --> 01:18:26,984
And I think she uses it to
really, really genius effect.

1210
01:18:26,984 --> 01:18:30,144
So that's a whole long list, but I
would say the image and heap and the

1211
01:18:30,144 --> 01:18:36,834
Laurie Anderson are two really, really
brilliant uses of synthesized vocals.

1212
01:18:37,328 --> 01:18:41,658
and if you want to go all the way in the
opposite direction to a real Reddit shit

1213
01:18:41,668 --> 01:18:48,299
posts, use of synthesized vocals, the
old here comes Pac Man, that's a bit Liam

1214
01:18:48,299 --> 01:18:52,332
Lynch y. I think we're just going to have
to link to that when we post the episode.

1215
01:18:52,332 --> 01:18:55,574
But that's one of my
favorite OG era viral videos.

1216
01:18:55,694 --> 01:18:57,374
Cause it's very strange.

1217
01:18:57,764 --> 01:18:59,014
And that's, I'll just leave it at that.

1218
01:18:59,014 --> 01:19:00,364
Google here comes back, man.

1219
01:19:01,180 --> 01:19:06,400
You also mentioned, like we talked
about Scent, but Melotron, your boy John

1220
01:19:06,410 --> 01:19:08,934
Paul Jones being like a great forebear.

1221
01:19:08,995 --> 01:19:11,415
Of the Mellotron world,
very interesting instrument.

1222
01:19:11,425 --> 01:19:16,405
Like, I think there is a thread of
interesting instruments worth exploring.

1223
01:19:16,975 --> 01:19:19,135
We shared in a previous episode.

1224
01:19:19,135 --> 01:19:22,965
I don't remember which one that Josh
Homme clip about, Glock and spiel fun

1225
01:19:22,965 --> 01:19:25,565
machine, vibraphone, whatever, whatever.

1226
01:19:25,955 --> 01:19:30,705
There's like a very specific
strain of electronic slash analog

1227
01:19:30,715 --> 01:19:35,435
equipment here with vocoders,
Mellotron and the roads, the roads.

1228
01:19:35,910 --> 01:19:40,730
Fender Rhodes is one of my favorite
instruments in the fucking world.

1229
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:43,720
It's just such a vibey sound.

1230
01:19:43,841 --> 01:19:48,671
And for those of you who haven't
cancelled Spotify yet, there is a great,

1231
01:19:48,981 --> 01:19:51,201
enormous playlist called Rhodes Trip.

1232
01:19:51,843 --> 01:19:55,033
cover art is a guy playing a
Fender Rhodes like on the beach.

1233
01:19:55,663 --> 01:19:58,743
And it's got tons of
songs with Rhodes in them.

1234
01:19:58,753 --> 01:20:03,309
So that instrument is a world in
and of itself to go explore as well.

1235
01:20:03,659 --> 01:20:08,789
Maybe picking up on that just
a bit and extending it forward.

1236
01:20:09,189 --> 01:20:13,989
So, Rhodes Piano incredible history
and lineage in its own right, including

1237
01:20:13,989 --> 01:20:16,019
how it got used and how it sounds.

1238
01:20:16,672 --> 01:20:22,808
It, in its heyday, right, slowly
lost sort of market share to digital

1239
01:20:22,808 --> 01:20:25,438
synthesizers in the 80s as those came out.

1240
01:20:26,061 --> 01:20:34,965
so, in that vein, Some of the pioneers
of analog synths are cool places to go

1241
01:20:35,485 --> 01:20:39,195
see where people were first learning
how to experiment with this stuff.

1242
01:20:39,225 --> 01:20:45,878
Yes, I think we could say, yes, if you
are interested in this music, you could

1243
01:20:45,878 --> 01:20:49,748
go listen to some of the people we're
about to mention, but I'm not sure

1244
01:20:49,748 --> 01:20:54,988
that's the best way to consume what we're
pointing out here more that, uh, you can

1245
01:20:55,088 --> 01:20:58,698
reverse engineer a little bit of what's
possible and what you're hearing here

1246
01:20:58,948 --> 01:21:04,738
by appreciating and understanding the
truly weird experiments that people were

1247
01:21:04,738 --> 01:21:11,148
doing very early on pushing further back
From, not just the eighties, but further

1248
01:21:11,148 --> 01:21:16,768
into when analog sense were getting
further developed and experimented with.

1249
01:21:17,028 --> 01:21:17,427
So.

1250
01:21:18,098 --> 01:21:22,558
A couple of examples to call out here,
Wendy Carlos, who helped popularize the

1251
01:21:22,558 --> 01:21:28,088
moog in general, uh, who's known for
her work from like the late 60s for what

1252
01:21:28,088 --> 01:21:32,408
was called switched on Bach but also a
couple of other fun connections related

1253
01:21:32,408 --> 01:21:36,458
to sense that had created a fun moment
between you and me just thinking about

1254
01:21:36,458 --> 01:21:38,088
this record before we started recording.

1255
01:21:38,548 --> 01:21:44,808
Both Jean Michel Jarre but specifically
Mort  both very influential,

1256
01:21:45,008 --> 01:21:50,060
uh, for using synths to create
Um, you know, soundscapes, uh,

1257
01:21:50,060 --> 01:21:51,640
and do some pretty weird stuff.

1258
01:21:51,920 --> 01:21:59,290
And both examples that sort of came out
as forebears of this now we're from 1976

1259
01:21:59,310 --> 01:22:06,050
for John Michael jars oxygen, but also
we talked about Mort Garson's Plantasia,

1260
01:22:06,130 --> 01:22:13,960
which is a delightful thing that exists in
the world, uh, which we I cannot recall.

1261
01:22:14,215 --> 01:22:18,365
But I feel that I had known about
previously, forgot, and then got

1262
01:22:18,375 --> 01:22:21,445
to re remember in the process
of this, which delighted me.

1263
01:22:21,625 --> 01:22:24,415
But Plantasia is an album for plants.

1264
01:22:24,780 --> 01:22:29,414
and in the year 2025, I ask you,
Should you make music for humans more

1265
01:22:29,414 --> 01:22:30,794
than you should make it for plants?

1266
01:22:31,214 --> 01:22:35,232
Or should we go back and reconsider who
we were doing this art for to begin with?

1267
01:22:35,407 --> 01:22:39,037
But it's also just a cool record
that's really fun to listen to.

1268
01:22:39,264 --> 01:22:47,434
On other fronts, I'd love to know if
there are other Krautrockish affiliated

1269
01:22:47,934 --> 01:22:51,774
artists that came to mind for you
outside of I know I kind of cheated and

1270
01:22:51,774 --> 01:22:56,364
mentioned can but that's sort of our
canonical example that points people

1271
01:22:56,364 --> 01:23:00,044
towards all of that music Anyway, did
it remind you of anybody else in the

1272
01:23:00,044 --> 01:23:01,714
vein that we have been talking about it?

1273
01:23:02,524 --> 01:23:07,374
credit to you, you also mentioned new,
who is a, is a good and I think to an

1274
01:23:07,374 --> 01:23:11,924
extent you can put craftwork kind of
in that bucket and maybe Gary Newman,

1275
01:23:11,934 --> 01:23:15,264
almost a little even, especially
as you're thinking about scent.

1276
01:23:15,739 --> 01:23:18,459
but there's just so much of the OCS world.

1277
01:23:19,139 --> 01:23:23,119
And John Dwyer that really feels
spiritually aligned with this.

1278
01:23:23,139 --> 01:23:28,349
It's like a speedball version of all
this, you know, that black moth is

1279
01:23:28,809 --> 01:23:32,649
Indica and OCs is sativa and cocaine.

1280
01:23:33,470 --> 01:23:39,618
but there are moments like 12 inch
scent of the OCs or some of the jammy

1281
01:23:39,618 --> 01:23:42,828
or stuff like that long song on.

1282
01:23:43,318 --> 01:23:47,752
face stabber that I can't remember
the name of, where it spreads

1283
01:23:47,752 --> 01:23:51,722
out and vibes and like, you can
especially experience it live when

1284
01:23:51,722 --> 01:23:53,990
they really let their free flag fly.

1285
01:23:55,010 --> 01:23:59,420
I see so much spiritual alignment
between the OCs and the total

1286
01:23:59,440 --> 01:24:02,350
idiosyncrasy of John Dwyer's.

1287
01:24:02,630 --> 01:24:04,254
Orbit and headspace.

1288
01:24:04,324 --> 01:24:08,864
And also I love the point you made
around this being like accidentally or

1289
01:24:08,864 --> 01:24:14,514
otherwise bad audiophile, like smart,
dumb audiophile, the OCs are that too.

1290
01:24:14,854 --> 01:24:17,684
Those records sound great.

1291
01:24:17,714 --> 01:24:21,164
They're so pleasing to the
ear, but none of them are like

1292
01:24:21,314 --> 01:24:23,434
objectively technically correct.

1293
01:24:23,924 --> 01:24:26,884
They're just idiosyncratic and dynamic.

1294
01:24:27,364 --> 01:24:30,054
And you have some of
that same flavor here.

1295
01:24:30,054 --> 01:24:30,554
So.

1296
01:24:30,745 --> 01:24:36,855
You may never go from Black Moth to the
OCs and dig it, but I think if you're

1297
01:24:36,855 --> 01:24:41,955
open minded enough to get to Black Moth
in the first place, there are entry

1298
01:24:41,955 --> 01:24:48,835
points with the OCs extensive catalog that
feel right at home and both byproducts

1299
01:24:48,835 --> 01:24:54,775
of the same culture aughts that that
we talked about early in the episode.

1300
01:24:55,001 --> 01:24:55,491
Right on.

1301
01:24:55,651 --> 01:24:56,731
I love that connection.

1302
01:24:56,751 --> 01:25:01,141
And maybe this comparison offends you,
but we talked about this, that math

1303
01:25:01,141 --> 01:25:03,021
equation earlier of a few different folks.

1304
01:25:03,251 --> 01:25:07,091
If you cut that equation in half and
you're just talking about a black

1305
01:25:07,091 --> 01:25:11,611
ball, super rainbow with the energy
of King Giz, you are not far from

1306
01:25:11,611 --> 01:25:14,251
OCs, at least in some of that area.

1307
01:25:14,496 --> 01:25:15,126
That's right.

1308
01:25:15,626 --> 01:25:16,156
That's right.

1309
01:25:16,796 --> 01:25:23,923
The OCs are just King mean older
brother, you know, like King Giz is

1310
01:25:23,923 --> 01:25:28,403
a sweet kid with a lot to live for
and the OCs are the older brother

1311
01:25:28,403 --> 01:25:32,853
that's been expelled from school and
plays the knife game at its desk.

1312
01:25:33,118 --> 01:25:37,648
Speaking of older and younger siblings
this part is pretty straightforward but

1313
01:25:37,648 --> 01:25:45,578
worth mentioning, uh, when you think of
contemporary ish artists or very near

1314
01:25:45,588 --> 01:25:52,028
form influences for this band, you get a
few interesting stopping points for sure.

1315
01:25:52,318 --> 01:25:56,458
Flaming lips, especially late nineties,
early two thousands, flaming lips is.

1316
01:25:57,073 --> 01:26:00,133
spiritually aligned to a lot
of what's happening here.

1317
01:26:00,543 --> 01:26:07,703
But also if, if we had a sort of
serious music history moment to point

1318
01:26:07,713 --> 01:26:12,173
anyone in the direction of here, if
you like wanted to really take this

1319
01:26:12,173 --> 01:26:16,523
musical lineage seriously, like you
would have to go backwards through.

1320
01:26:16,758 --> 01:26:21,798
98's Music Has the Right to Children by
Boards of Canada and the Electronic Duo.

1321
01:26:21,798 --> 01:26:25,348
Like, you would definitely go
straight through that tunnel, uh,

1322
01:26:25,348 --> 01:26:29,163
and through that record, which is
In and of itself, a pretty important

1323
01:26:29,173 --> 01:26:31,853
record for a number of genres.

1324
01:26:32,317 --> 01:26:36,160
and there's a lot that you
can go back through like that.

1325
01:26:36,370 --> 01:26:41,260
If you want to do the sort of peeling
the layer of the onion thing here.

1326
01:26:41,490 --> 01:26:46,600
But I'm also just trying to give fair
warning as a music nerd and lover.

1327
01:26:47,370 --> 01:26:51,140
Peeling the onion may not be the way you
want to approach this one in particular.

1328
01:26:52,005 --> 01:26:57,855
This album, once again, is going to
work better in a lean back and let

1329
01:26:57,855 --> 01:27:01,445
it come to you type of fashion than
it will trying to push it forward

1330
01:27:01,465 --> 01:27:04,825
into, um, historical realness.

1331
01:27:05,235 --> 01:27:08,145
But there's always that there if
you want to pull on that thread.

1332
01:27:08,715 --> 01:27:08,955
Yeah.

1333
01:27:08,955 --> 01:27:14,685
You got to stay with this record or band
and in the world of pure imagination

1334
01:27:14,685 --> 01:27:16,045
that you build for yourself in it.

1335
01:27:16,545 --> 01:27:18,305
Like it's almost unfair.

1336
01:27:19,109 --> 01:27:26,349
Thomas almost never cites influences in
any interview ever, but the two, to your

1337
01:27:26,349 --> 01:27:31,669
point, that he name checks with some
regularity are Apex Twin and Boards of

1338
01:27:31,669 --> 01:27:36,629
Canada, but then you go back to those
and doesn't even remotely sonically

1339
01:27:36,639 --> 01:27:39,609
resemble really like any of the time.

1340
01:27:40,574 --> 01:27:41,374
Fantastic.

1341
01:27:41,374 --> 01:27:45,654
Both are fantastic, obviously, and, and
cult favorites for a reason, but you're

1342
01:27:45,654 --> 01:27:47,734
not going to find a satisfying similarity.

1343
01:27:47,734 --> 01:27:51,064
I don't think you will a
little closer in flaming lips.

1344
01:27:51,064 --> 01:27:54,654
And to your point about the math
equation, maybe there's like some

1345
01:27:54,654 --> 01:28:00,594
boards of Canada, some flaming lips,
and then a little bit of Boris freak

1346
01:28:00,594 --> 01:28:05,504
out like heavy rocks type flavor,
just real light accoutrement on top.

1347
01:28:06,084 --> 01:28:09,644
But flaming lips is a little closer
because you know, they toured

1348
01:28:09,904 --> 01:28:12,234
together in the dandelion gum era.

1349
01:28:12,634 --> 01:28:15,854
They had their first like big touring
moment where they opened for the lips

1350
01:28:16,204 --> 01:28:19,644
and eventually got Dave Friedman.

1351
01:28:19,824 --> 01:28:23,714
Who's a mainstay flaming lips
producer to produce a later

1352
01:28:23,724 --> 01:28:25,634
record for them called eating us.

1353
01:28:26,277 --> 01:28:33,767
So there is some alignment there, but
there's a using the mood ring, uh, analogy

1354
01:28:33,767 --> 01:28:37,897
that did once again, different colors
between the lips and black moth for sure.

1355
01:28:38,662 --> 01:28:39,002
Yep.

1356
01:28:39,472 --> 01:28:43,082
Maybe just to round that out, briefly
everything we said is still the

1357
01:28:43,082 --> 01:28:47,202
case, but if you do find yourself
in the, no, I really want to listen

1358
01:28:47,202 --> 01:28:51,022
to this Boards of Canada record now,
this is where I'm camping out, fine.

1359
01:28:51,352 --> 01:28:56,252
Also spend Moon Safari by air, and then
keep going further back, and if you want,

1360
01:28:56,302 --> 01:29:00,302
check out the episode we did on Tangerine
Dream, because if you're just gonna go

1361
01:29:00,302 --> 01:29:05,262
back to the, to the Genesis, you might
as well do it with the true deep nerds.

1362
01:29:05,365 --> 01:29:07,205
Who made a lot of this stuff possible.

1363
01:29:07,615 --> 01:29:12,212
By the way, I couldn't find the quote,
but I swear I saw it where, tobacco

1364
01:29:12,212 --> 01:29:17,052
was being interviewed and he expressly
said he hated being compared to air.

1365
01:29:18,432 --> 01:29:22,672
but it's, it's not an unfair
comparison entirely, but I get it.

1366
01:29:24,775 --> 01:29:28,045
Just taking a wild guess having
just heard that from you, I think

1367
01:29:28,045 --> 01:29:30,025
I can understand that comparison.

1368
01:29:30,355 --> 01:29:34,925
And what I'm mostly comparing Eir to
is Boards of Canada in this moment.

1369
01:29:35,205 --> 01:29:40,967
So we'll try to spiritually
honor that frustration from him.

1370
01:29:40,967 --> 01:29:46,410
Um, but, so I think that that's like,
almost an overly simplistic path and

1371
01:29:46,420 --> 01:29:49,710
in one that we've tried to illuminate
a bit in the past honestly, through a

1372
01:29:49,710 --> 01:29:54,350
combination of like I said both tangerine
dream and can episodes in the past.

1373
01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:58,930
We like both of those bands a lot in
what they did and there's plenty to

1374
01:29:58,930 --> 01:30:03,366
discover there, but I think Fanning out
over the sort of spectrum of places that

1375
01:30:03,366 --> 01:30:07,726
you can go to here becomes immediately
more interesting and to the degree that,

1376
01:30:08,066 --> 01:30:11,656
uh, in this outline that both me and
Kyle are staring at right now, there

1377
01:30:11,656 --> 01:30:15,256
is a bullet point called Weird, with
a bunch of sub bullets, and I think

1378
01:30:15,256 --> 01:30:20,901
that we should go there next because,
If this excites you, it can excite you

1379
01:30:20,901 --> 01:30:26,303
in some really interesting directions,
that will take you to some other places.

1380
01:30:26,303 --> 01:30:29,953
And I, and I also see some cool
stuff that's exciting me in this

1381
01:30:29,953 --> 01:30:31,143
list that I didn't put here.

1382
01:30:31,353 --> 01:30:35,013
What I did put here though, uh, was
once again, I think we've mentioned them

1383
01:30:35,013 --> 01:30:39,093
in the past, but the armed and anyone
else who describes themselves as like.

1384
01:30:39,648 --> 01:30:46,798
Post pop or anti pop or anything
that is pushing the boundaries of

1385
01:30:46,968 --> 01:30:49,708
what we think of as poppy music.

1386
01:30:50,038 --> 01:30:55,588
That is in a, at a slow BPM, exactly
what's happening on this record.

1387
01:30:55,798 --> 01:30:59,888
And for bands like The Armed, it's
happening at a higher BPM with different.

1388
01:31:00,088 --> 01:31:03,938
types of influences and instruments,
but are similarly looking to, like,

1389
01:31:04,378 --> 01:31:10,488
stretch things past their logical
endpoints to create a sensation of

1390
01:31:10,498 --> 01:31:15,568
music that is not inherently trying
to teach you anything other than,

1391
01:31:15,708 --> 01:31:17,388
look how fucking weird we can be.

1392
01:31:17,508 --> 01:31:18,398
Isn't this fun?

1393
01:31:19,018 --> 01:31:21,068
Which is how I feel at an arm show.

1394
01:31:21,903 --> 01:31:25,563
Yeah, but specifically with a
pop sensibility in mind, like

1395
01:31:25,563 --> 01:31:28,623
that's the piece of taffy that
you stretch beyond recognition.

1396
01:31:28,653 --> 01:31:30,893
Yeah, it's the, it's the
nucleus that you explode.

1397
01:31:31,807 --> 01:31:36,667
the armed led to all the
other anti gravity pop.

1398
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:41,320
examples that I listed, you touched on
Animal Collective, I think the work of

1399
01:31:41,320 --> 01:31:46,530
Panda Bear in general, like all the way
down to like the remixes and stuff is

1400
01:31:46,530 --> 01:31:50,920
another great example, Deer Hoof being
a contemporary where that works, Crystal

1401
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:55,450
Castles gets into some of the, when I
think of Crystal Castles, I think of like

1402
01:31:55,450 --> 01:31:59,800
kind of the motoric energy, I think Flying
Lotus is a really good example here,

1403
01:31:59,930 --> 01:32:04,100
we could extend it all the way to other
members of Brain Feeder, like Thundercat,

1404
01:32:04,130 --> 01:32:05,930
but it starts to get a little more nodey.

1405
01:32:06,791 --> 01:32:10,331
and Cole trainee and present, but
I think with flying Lotus, you have

1406
01:32:10,331 --> 01:32:13,871
some of that weird diffuse energy.

1407
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:18,227
and then our old buddy Keenan
Phillips turned me on to them and

1408
01:32:18,227 --> 01:32:20,267
can back when we were teenagers.

1409
01:32:20,267 --> 01:32:22,177
But the books are another example

1410
01:32:22,217 --> 01:32:24,277
I was so stoked you said this!

1411
01:32:24,537 --> 01:32:27,207
The Lemon of Pink was crazy

1412
01:32:27,447 --> 01:32:32,917
Yeah, just a totally like the, you
know, That quote at the beginning where

1413
01:32:32,917 --> 01:32:37,067
we talked about feeling like you're on
drugs when you're just taking the trash

1414
01:32:37,067 --> 01:32:42,097
out Like that's what the books are It's
it sort of warps your whole reality and

1415
01:32:42,097 --> 01:32:47,228
makes you walk a little askew after you
listen to them but there is something

1416
01:32:47,928 --> 01:32:51,131
That breaks through and it's kind of
accessible about it even though it's

1417
01:32:51,131 --> 01:32:54,471
like when I heard it the first time I
just remember being like what the fuck

1418
01:32:54,501 --> 01:32:57,101
is this shit And I really love it now.

1419
01:32:57,101 --> 01:33:01,941
And it's just, there's no reason
to ever put it on ever or, or seek

1420
01:33:01,941 --> 01:33:04,491
out going to experience it live.

1421
01:33:05,123 --> 01:33:08,643
which I don't know that
you could even do anymore.

1422
01:33:09,078 --> 01:33:12,828
but it feels spiritually
in the same vein for sure.

1423
01:33:13,387 --> 01:33:17,027
and I just figure I'll mention
offhand too, this discussion has

1424
01:33:17,027 --> 01:33:23,157
reminded me of what it felt like to
listen to album 88 in the mid aughts

1425
01:33:23,452 --> 01:33:23,822
Dude.

1426
01:33:23,852 --> 01:33:24,302
Yes.

1427
01:33:24,517 --> 01:33:25,487
how much

1428
01:33:25,652 --> 01:33:28,412
I actually think that tobacco
record, I think Fucked Up Friends,

1429
01:33:28,412 --> 01:33:32,042
was in heavy rotation when I
was working at the station.

1430
01:33:32,082 --> 01:33:36,292
I was gonna say, so the, the type of
world building that that record station

1431
01:33:36,302 --> 01:33:41,462
did around music like we're talking
about here also brought to mind to me

1432
01:33:41,732 --> 01:33:44,672
among other things Glostrop by Battles.

1433
01:33:45,172 --> 01:33:49,402
It was like a really heavy rotation
on album 88 around the same time

1434
01:33:49,682 --> 01:33:54,437
and just has yet another like, Why
does it sound like this and why

1435
01:33:54,437 --> 01:33:56,417
do I like it type of phenomenon?

1436
01:33:56,827 --> 01:33:59,357
And that's always a record
that ended up surprising me.

1437
01:33:59,357 --> 01:34:04,484
And, uh, honestly can't say you know,
after I was a kid listening to classic

1438
01:34:04,484 --> 01:34:09,534
rock stations, can't say that radio
stations turned me on to too much music.

1439
01:34:09,534 --> 01:34:11,894
Once I became an adult,
I had the internet.

1440
01:34:11,894 --> 01:34:12,824
Thank you very much.

1441
01:34:13,144 --> 01:34:15,224
Um, but battles in a few.

1442
01:34:15,864 --> 01:34:19,284
Related bands came directly
from album 88 and whatever

1443
01:34:19,294 --> 01:34:22,184
those college kids were doing.

1444
01:34:22,674 --> 01:34:23,954
You remember Jetlag?

1445
01:34:24,024 --> 01:34:24,824
Yeah!

1446
01:34:25,686 --> 01:34:27,066
still one of the biggest.

1447
01:34:27,076 --> 01:34:33,886
Jetlag with Yoon, Nam, and Tower of
Song with the homie Andrew Johnson,

1448
01:34:34,126 --> 01:34:37,956
two of probably the most consistent
vehicles of music discovery for me in

1449
01:34:37,956 --> 01:34:45,046
the late 2000s, just exploded me toward
unknown, unknown, after unknown, unknown.

1450
01:34:45,046 --> 01:34:46,928
Shout out Alm88, man.

1451
01:34:47,398 --> 01:34:48,268
What an institution.

1452
01:34:48,861 --> 01:34:52,751
We appreciate what still exists about
it but there was a moment in time

1453
01:34:52,751 --> 01:34:56,941
where it was a fundamentally different
thing that will never be as cool again.

1454
01:34:57,755 --> 01:34:58,375
That's right.

1455
01:34:59,465 --> 01:35:07,095
Yeah, picture KEXP with no
institutional backing, no like sheen

1456
01:35:07,095 --> 01:35:13,095
of doing stuff, just pure freeform
push to the edges all the time.

1457
01:35:13,617 --> 01:35:18,467
So I think we've mentioned a few
other Genres, I think we can tap on,

1458
01:35:18,834 --> 01:35:20,694
you've got some under hypnotic here.

1459
01:35:20,694 --> 01:35:23,524
So we've talked about can and new and OCS.

1460
01:35:24,144 --> 01:35:26,454
But I see you called out dead
meadow, which is a really

1461
01:35:26,454 --> 01:35:28,864
cool get or really cool pool.

1462
01:35:29,034 --> 01:35:33,467
A band that, uh, is on that very short
list of artists I didn't listen to a

1463
01:35:33,467 --> 01:35:38,847
ton and then I saw them live and it
clicked in just the right way because

1464
01:35:38,847 --> 01:35:43,827
it was just the right moment at the
Drunken Unicorn and everything surprised

1465
01:35:43,857 --> 01:35:47,327
me in a cool way and it was like, I
saw my neighbor there who was stoked

1466
01:35:47,337 --> 01:35:49,047
that I was at a Dead Meadows show,

1467
01:35:49,057 --> 01:35:49,507
like,

1468
01:35:49,982 --> 01:35:50,422
what show you're

1469
01:35:50,422 --> 01:35:50,812
talking about.

1470
01:35:50,832 --> 01:35:52,012
That was a great show.

1471
01:35:53,317 --> 01:35:56,387
What else is in here for you that
you're describing under hypnotic?

1472
01:35:57,012 --> 01:36:04,997
There's a very specific sort of, it can go
To like almost into the weird category, or

1473
01:36:04,997 --> 01:36:07,137
I know we'll get into more ambient stuff.

1474
01:36:07,776 --> 01:36:12,196
it can go a little too light and then
it can certainly go too heavy where you

1475
01:36:12,196 --> 01:36:14,486
get into like stoner rock type of stuff.

1476
01:36:14,486 --> 01:36:18,906
And dead Meadows right on that line
on the other side of that is probably

1477
01:36:18,906 --> 01:36:25,716
stuff like uncle acid and whatever, but
stuff that is like motoric inspired.

1478
01:36:26,346 --> 01:36:30,696
And I would even put stuff like Moon Duo
and White Hills and Nod on the other side

1479
01:36:30,696 --> 01:36:35,106
of that line where it's, it's close, but
there's a little too much edge to the

1480
01:36:35,106 --> 01:36:40,256
energy, maybe so the, these are bands that
give you a little bit of that hot tubby

1481
01:36:40,256 --> 01:36:43,846
feeling, but it's a little more guitar
maybe than synth is the through line

1482
01:36:44,396 --> 01:36:51,716
Foliczoid, uh, Is another great one sort
of Hawk Windy space rock type of stuff.

1483
01:36:51,716 --> 01:36:52,916
Just really great records.

1484
01:36:52,916 --> 01:36:57,386
I think that have mostly come out on
sacred bones, which is an untouchably good

1485
01:36:57,386 --> 01:37:00,071
label, and then caribou being another one.

1486
01:37:00,793 --> 01:37:01,313
Right on.

1487
01:37:01,673 --> 01:37:07,653
I love maybe being able to take stock
of how you're feeling on a given day

1488
01:37:07,663 --> 01:37:10,603
and chasing that with some of the
vibes that we're calling out here.

1489
01:37:11,152 --> 01:37:12,182
Yeah, that's right.

1490
01:37:12,432 --> 01:37:15,392
Yeah, look at your mood ring and
let the color determine which

1491
01:37:15,392 --> 01:37:17,532
of these categories to go after.

1492
01:37:18,413 --> 01:37:20,373
So hypnotic will lock you in.

1493
01:37:21,113 --> 01:37:23,273
If you want to pull back
a little bit, I think.

1494
01:37:24,108 --> 01:37:28,998
There are a ton of genres that have stupid
names, so I didn't make them, and don't

1495
01:37:28,998 --> 01:37:34,328
blame me, but Chill Wave is definitely
a place you can end up here, uh,

1496
01:37:34,672 --> 01:37:36,062
The worst name for the best

1497
01:37:36,068 --> 01:37:36,398
yeah.

1498
01:37:36,632 --> 01:37:37,112
you know what I

1499
01:37:37,112 --> 01:37:37,412
mean?

1500
01:37:39,498 --> 01:37:46,838
But, in, uh, a lot of Um, similar brains
to what we've talked about so far and kind

1501
01:37:46,838 --> 01:37:53,118
of spiritually aligned with the feeling
of not taking things too seriously.

1502
01:37:53,118 --> 01:37:56,478
And we're going to use music in this
moment to all kind of be together,

1503
01:37:56,918 --> 01:38:00,938
but it's not all the way on the
other side of, it's not club music or

1504
01:38:00,938 --> 01:38:05,028
dance music or whatever, necessarily
washed out definitely comes to mind.

1505
01:38:05,248 --> 01:38:09,208
Someone who's done some really interesting
things over, they put together.

1506
01:38:09,923 --> 01:38:13,103
It's a pretty long career
for WSDAL at this point.

1507
01:38:13,503 --> 01:38:16,443
Probably in the seven or eight
record range in this, at this

1508
01:38:16,443 --> 01:38:16,943
time, I would

1509
01:38:16,943 --> 01:38:17,363
imagine.

1510
01:38:17,783 --> 01:38:20,023
yeah, cranking it out for a while.

1511
01:38:20,413 --> 01:38:26,063
But more kind of locally specific, like
Calm Trues came to mind, like a band

1512
01:38:26,063 --> 01:38:30,093
I've gotten to see a couple of times
who are a little bit, uh, in that range

1513
01:38:30,225 --> 01:38:34,105
and, It even reminded me, I don't know
if you'll remember this one, but uh,

1514
01:38:34,195 --> 01:38:39,085
speaking of drunken unicorn shows around
this time, uh, like, Dale Earnhardt Jr.

1515
01:38:39,085 --> 01:38:46,505
Jr. It's just spiritually aligned
in the sense of, once again, like,

1516
01:38:46,505 --> 01:38:51,385
the kind of like weird, not too
serious type of stuff, but, you know,

1517
01:38:51,385 --> 01:38:53,285
the artist that we just mentioned.

1518
01:38:53,590 --> 01:38:58,540
Are more on the polished end of things
took the hooks a little bit more seriously

1519
01:38:58,540 --> 01:39:02,130
flesh out the instrumentation a little
bit more, uh, and it wasn't quite of

1520
01:39:02,130 --> 01:39:06,255
just a, a backbeat type vibe the way we
see from Black Moth Super Rainbow here.

1521
01:39:06,255 --> 01:39:11,303
But again, lots more to go down
in that kind of genre rabbit hole.

1522
01:39:11,683 --> 01:39:12,853
Any other things to add there?

1523
01:39:13,728 --> 01:39:19,488
I would quickly add, Neon Indian is not
really chill wave, but probably the best

1524
01:39:19,778 --> 01:39:21,858
places slotted is in this ecosystem.

1525
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:28,730
Chaz, Tori Moi, which like I would
specifically say go see him them

1526
01:39:28,730 --> 01:39:31,270
live or watch some of the live stuff.

1527
01:39:31,380 --> 01:39:35,410
They're, they do like a great
live set in the desert where they

1528
01:39:35,410 --> 01:39:37,150
play in the round like Pompeii.

1529
01:39:37,429 --> 01:39:40,209
and it's kind of the vibe of this.

1530
01:39:40,525 --> 01:39:45,395
I think you can also go back
to four bears of Chillwave.

1531
01:39:45,735 --> 01:39:48,955
That, you know, they may not want this
comparison, but I think it's an apt

1532
01:39:48,955 --> 01:39:54,631
one, zero seven, those first two zero
seven records, and then stereo lab.

1533
01:39:54,811 --> 01:39:57,801
There, there is a decent amount
of comparison to stereo lab that

1534
01:39:57,801 --> 01:40:00,071
I saw in reviews of black moth

1535
01:40:00,559 --> 01:40:05,059
Last one we've pre carved out for
ourselves, um, which you can just kind of

1536
01:40:05,059 --> 01:40:10,479
take me on a journey, especially because
you already mentioned the probably most

1537
01:40:10,499 --> 01:40:16,689
accessible entry point into the category
of like more ambient music in general.

1538
01:40:17,069 --> 01:40:19,549
Uh, we made a music for airport jokes.

1539
01:40:19,579 --> 01:40:22,909
Brian, you know, is never a bad decision.

1540
01:40:23,259 --> 01:40:26,849
And so that's always a good starting
point for folks especially if you're

1541
01:40:26,849 --> 01:40:28,659
feeling uncertain and curious.

1542
01:40:28,939 --> 01:40:34,589
But Kyle, you've compiled quite a list of
people here that I think are really cool,

1543
01:40:35,019 --> 01:40:41,249
uh, set of stones to walk through in this
forest and end up somewhere very odd.

1544
01:40:41,744 --> 01:40:42,604
stones.

1545
01:40:43,104 --> 01:40:45,284
Ha ha ha ha.

1546
01:40:46,588 --> 01:40:51,661
so much was called to mind thinking
about this era of time when

1547
01:40:51,741 --> 01:40:55,741
Dandelion gum came out where I was
like really getting my mind blown.

1548
01:40:56,111 --> 01:41:01,922
At Alameda and crate digging at
criminal and elsewhere in Atlanta.

1549
01:41:02,045 --> 01:41:04,961
so definitely, ambience one and four.

1550
01:41:05,052 --> 01:41:09,703
Harold Bud's pavilion of dreams is
another very, very end of the night

1551
01:41:09,773 --> 01:41:11,593
after a day full of black moth.

1552
01:41:11,593 --> 01:41:16,433
Who has a pretty deep
relationship with Atlanta.

1553
01:41:16,600 --> 01:41:19,500
and it's the author, if you
will, of ambient three and

1554
01:41:19,500 --> 01:41:21,455
that, you know, Helmed series.

1555
01:41:22,045 --> 01:41:26,605
So those are like some of the classics
that feel spiritually aligned, but

1556
01:41:26,605 --> 01:41:30,135
there was a whole modern movement, like
talking about the, like immediately

1557
01:41:30,155 --> 01:41:35,982
pre blog era, just people doing super
weird shit, where they were like.

1558
01:41:35,982 --> 01:41:40,806
Putting stuff on cassettes before that
was back in fashion, like it is now.

1559
01:41:41,236 --> 01:41:41,666
And it was just.

1560
01:41:42,131 --> 01:41:47,828
Esoteric and strange and had a
sense of analog and whatever.

1561
01:41:47,848 --> 01:41:50,588
So there's a whole world of stuff.

1562
01:41:50,588 --> 01:41:54,438
That's not even necessarily directly
connected to each other that I love.

1563
01:41:54,528 --> 01:41:57,528
It's like a specific vibe
of stuff that I love.

1564
01:41:57,528 --> 01:42:00,468
And I buy about two on
a very regular basis.

1565
01:42:00,948 --> 01:42:05,718
And I've not really had an opportunity to
show love to until this moment, and it's

1566
01:42:05,718 --> 01:42:12,572
shoehorning a little, but I think if you
just really dig the lean back energy of

1567
01:42:12,572 --> 01:42:17,102
it, there's at least one of these things
in this list that could be your thing.

1568
01:42:17,582 --> 01:42:22,152
So stuff like magic lantern
or forest swords or emeralds.

1569
01:42:22,612 --> 01:42:28,252
Or Eternal Tapestry, who had a great,
heady record called Transcendence

1570
01:42:28,378 --> 01:42:32,758
Or Blues Control, or Sunburned Hand
of the Man, which feels like it

1571
01:42:32,758 --> 01:42:35,098
could be a Black Moth song title.

1572
01:42:35,528 --> 01:42:38,851
Or Vibra Cathedral Orchestra, or Barn Owl.

1573
01:42:39,141 --> 01:42:45,791
Who had some great, really heady guitar
based stuff or bitch and Baja's who have

1574
01:42:45,791 --> 01:42:49,231
done great stuff on their own and great
collaborations with folks like Bonnie

1575
01:42:49,251 --> 01:42:52,900
Prince Billy or, one Oh tricks point.

1576
01:42:52,940 --> 01:42:57,330
Never, which doesn't, doesn't
really look like it's spelled.

1577
01:42:57,843 --> 01:43:01,965
Daniel Lopatin who, you know, went
on to do scores for stuff like good

1578
01:43:01,965 --> 01:43:06,568
time and, Has kind of carved out
a niche in the industry sonically.

1579
01:43:07,158 --> 01:43:10,768
Um, but my favorite, favorite, favorite,
favorite on that list is Daniel

1580
01:43:10,778 --> 01:43:15,729
Stallone, who releases stuff under the
name son or raw, and has like done a

1581
01:43:15,749 --> 01:43:21,248
collab record with the Congos for the
Freakways series, but has, put out a

1582
01:43:21,248 --> 01:43:24,808
record in Oh seven, same year as this
called beach head that I listened to

1583
01:43:24,818 --> 01:43:28,928
all the time that if you are like really
outside of your mind, blissing out.

1584
01:43:29,658 --> 01:43:30,888
Beach at is a great record.

1585
01:43:31,468 --> 01:43:35,524
Heavy deeds is a, another one that's
like, if you like the Augustus Pablo

1586
01:43:35,524 --> 01:43:38,768
episode, that's like a memory of
a memory of a memory of Augustus

1587
01:43:38,768 --> 01:43:45,147
Pablo, that record, Cameron Stallone,
son of raw, great artists, singular

1588
01:43:45,147 --> 01:43:47,632
artists in the vein of, tobacco,

1589
01:43:47,867 --> 01:43:49,167
A lot of places to go.

1590
01:43:49,237 --> 01:43:53,257
The only extra thing I would add there
would actually be going, going back

1591
01:43:53,257 --> 01:43:58,247
to some of the earlier, more ambient
work in addition to like Brian, you

1592
01:43:58,247 --> 01:44:03,147
know, and things like that, if you've
never, uh, and we also had mentioned the

1593
01:44:03,777 --> 01:44:06,657
Plantasia record by Mort Garson in 76.

1594
01:44:07,087 --> 01:44:13,857
If you want to go though, further into
Ambient history, uh, and this idea of

1595
01:44:13,857 --> 01:44:18,797
just mixing collected and recorded sounds
with, you know, low key music and all

1596
01:44:18,797 --> 01:44:24,197
that worth mentioning to, uh, Hiroshi
Yoshimura's green album from 1986,

1597
01:44:24,207 --> 01:44:28,387
like one of the most, you know, famous
Japanese ambient albums of all time.

1598
01:44:28,817 --> 01:44:34,187
Like all that sort of stuff is like, if,
if even the chill wave recommendations we

1599
01:44:34,187 --> 01:44:36,827
gave you are a little too lively, you can.

1600
01:44:37,267 --> 01:44:41,848
Keep stepping it all the way back, uh,
and hit some of this ambient stuff, but

1601
01:44:42,235 --> 01:44:47,867
Man, I hope even literally Tobacco, the
artist, and the other folks involved in

1602
01:44:47,867 --> 01:44:54,307
Black Mall Super Rainbow would be excited
by how big of a box that we can open just

1603
01:44:54,317 --> 01:44:58,987
by starting with this particular record
and sending people in a bunch of places

1604
01:44:58,987 --> 01:45:04,742
that, um, Are either interesting or
important or both, um, but, but without

1605
01:45:04,752 --> 01:45:10,072
having to, once again, take anything
overly seriously as you try to encounter

1606
01:45:10,112 --> 01:45:15,632
this record and that has been a kind and a
welcome relief this time through for sure.

1607
01:45:16,137 --> 01:45:17,197
So I think.

1608
01:45:17,319 --> 01:45:21,619
One thing I saw you mentioned here,
Kyle, I'd love to leave people with too.

1609
01:45:21,947 --> 01:45:26,457
We talk about what to do with what
you feel if something hits you in

1610
01:45:26,497 --> 01:45:31,419
unexpected ways about this record and
aligned with something I see that.

1611
01:45:31,879 --> 01:45:33,279
That you've called out here.

1612
01:45:33,609 --> 01:45:39,299
I was recently watching the new animated
Spider Man thing that's come out.

1613
01:45:39,579 --> 01:45:43,939
That's like, speaking of things that are
maybe for kids, but maybe also for adults.

1614
01:45:43,939 --> 01:45:44,469
Who knows?

1615
01:45:44,499 --> 01:45:45,069
I like it.

1616
01:45:45,659 --> 01:45:49,979
But one of like my favorite things
about like real old comic book,

1617
01:45:49,989 --> 01:45:55,979
actual Spider Man as translated into
modern society is that like, he like

1618
01:45:56,059 --> 01:45:59,609
is stoked on finding electronics
by the dumpster that people left.

1619
01:46:00,329 --> 01:46:03,889
Like, he's like, a DVD player, like,
who would leave this here and why?

1620
01:46:04,089 --> 01:46:06,189
And he can like, go do
some dumb shit with it.

1621
01:46:06,479 --> 01:46:13,359
And like, similarly, whether it's going
back to a thrift store and hooking some

1622
01:46:13,359 --> 01:46:16,759
weird shit together that you can afford
because it didn't cost any money or

1623
01:46:16,759 --> 01:46:20,589
whether it's like old analog stuff that
you get a hold of and it's a privilege

1624
01:46:20,589 --> 01:46:26,859
to even work with or whether it's,
the newer version of a lot of this.

1625
01:46:27,069 --> 01:46:31,259
Concept which to me is kind of
affiliated with like maker spaces and

1626
01:46:31,259 --> 01:46:36,179
stuff like the arduino and raspberry
pi stuff of the world where it's like

1627
01:46:36,619 --> 01:46:40,959
Just give me some stuff and then let
me go make something else with it.

1628
01:46:41,189 --> 01:46:46,134
And just like Whatever I make is what I
made the destination is the journey and

1629
01:46:46,134 --> 01:46:50,454
whatever, dude, like I just wanna make a
thing and solder some things together and

1630
01:46:50,454 --> 01:46:51,924
see what happens on the other side of it.

1631
01:46:51,984 --> 01:46:56,964
And like, to me that energy is
like really encapsulated and can

1632
01:46:56,964 --> 01:47:02,094
get motivated by what happens here
musically, uh, on this record.

1633
01:47:02,094 --> 01:47:07,884
Like there's, there's so much DIY energy
here that doesn't need to prove anything.

1634
01:47:08,474 --> 01:47:09,609
And to some of the.

1635
01:47:10,744 --> 01:47:14,184
Ways that we opened this episode today.

1636
01:47:14,604 --> 01:47:16,994
Sometimes it's important to
remember that you don't have

1637
01:47:16,994 --> 01:47:19,734
to prove anything to anyone.

1638
01:47:20,174 --> 01:47:24,204
And sometimes you can just sit back
and do some things with your hands

1639
01:47:24,204 --> 01:47:28,474
to entertain your body and see what
comes out of it and enjoy it and

1640
01:47:28,474 --> 01:47:31,354
appreciate it and just like take a ride.

1641
01:47:31,522 --> 01:47:35,032
So, I loved that you sort of brought
that up, and it, it just reminded

1642
01:47:35,032 --> 01:47:39,862
me of the ways that we can remind
ourselves on a daily basis, like,

1643
01:47:40,109 --> 01:47:42,739
just crochet some shit, dude.

1644
01:47:42,869 --> 01:47:48,869
Like, just do something that doesn't
result in a capitalistic outcome to

1645
01:47:48,869 --> 01:47:52,979
remind yourself that you exist, uh, and
that there are things that you may be

1646
01:47:52,979 --> 01:47:56,079
able to do, but there's a lot of stuff
you can't do, and you just have to

1647
01:47:56,079 --> 01:47:57,739
take care of yourself in the meantime.

1648
01:47:58,433 --> 01:48:04,103
I love that we started with lean
back, let this clear out your mind.

1649
01:48:04,163 --> 01:48:08,563
And if that's all this record ever does
for you energetically, that's fine.

1650
01:48:08,703 --> 01:48:09,463
That's great.

1651
01:48:09,973 --> 01:48:15,793
But you and I, especially as we've had
the calendar now for a year and some

1652
01:48:15,793 --> 01:48:18,923
change, have talked about the discipline.

1653
01:48:19,558 --> 01:48:22,138
Of loving music and letting
music enrich your life.

1654
01:48:22,178 --> 01:48:25,668
And the discipline is in the
sustaining and mindfulness

1655
01:48:25,678 --> 01:48:27,118
is all about the sustaining.

1656
01:48:27,458 --> 01:48:31,938
So I think the way that you sustain
that cleared out state, living in

1657
01:48:31,938 --> 01:48:37,128
a world of pure imagination is by
just doing stuff, just making stuff.

1658
01:48:37,178 --> 01:48:39,658
And that's what the life,
that's the artist's way.

1659
01:48:39,928 --> 01:48:46,068
Truly is just sustaining a discipline
of creating, expressing, making

1660
01:48:46,078 --> 01:48:47,908
the world that you want to live in.

1661
01:48:48,333 --> 01:48:55,853
One little weird doodad knob turn wire
connection into a board at a time one like

1662
01:48:55,853 --> 01:49:01,783
one set of eyeballs cut out of a magazine
and paste it on to a garbage pail kids

1663
01:49:01,803 --> 01:49:06,263
rainbow, every creative act as a step
in the direction of the world that you

1664
01:49:06,263 --> 01:49:08,903
want to live like our artists exists to.

1665
01:49:09,468 --> 01:49:13,448
See the world as it could be not
as it is and like create new world.

1666
01:49:13,448 --> 01:49:15,248
So like you can do that.

1667
01:49:15,268 --> 01:49:17,298
There's no us and them around that.

1668
01:49:17,298 --> 01:49:21,958
Like everybody can be creative if you
just do a creative thing, you may hate it.

1669
01:49:22,018 --> 01:49:27,425
You may think it sucks, but like tobacco
is a great, is great evidence in favor of.

1670
01:49:27,504 --> 01:49:28,904
you don't have to go to Berkeley.

1671
01:49:28,904 --> 01:49:30,664
You don't have to know anything fancy.

1672
01:49:30,664 --> 01:49:32,194
There is no great secret.

1673
01:49:32,234 --> 01:49:33,364
The great secret is.

1674
01:49:33,834 --> 01:49:38,666
Revealed to you in the doing
so I hope that you'll do, I

1675
01:49:38,666 --> 01:49:40,316
guess, is the takeaway for me.

1676
01:49:40,666 --> 01:49:45,236
I think that's also reflected in
the okay player review that we cited

1677
01:49:45,426 --> 01:49:46,876
at the beginning of this episode.

1678
01:49:47,102 --> 01:49:48,562
last paragraph is so good.

1679
01:49:48,794 --> 01:49:52,044
Their bio mentions how their music
could be quote pagan rituals and a

1680
01:49:52,044 --> 01:49:57,094
sugar coaster fairyland or quote sad
thoughts on the happiest days What this

1681
01:49:57,114 --> 01:50:00,864
means is that it goes back to a time
when music like this was truly part

1682
01:50:00,864 --> 01:50:04,674
of the norm when creating sounds like
these We're part of being experimental

1683
01:50:04,824 --> 01:50:08,284
when being experimental meant loving FM
radio for hearing something you'd never

1684
01:50:08,314 --> 01:50:10,464
hear on AM radio Staying up at 2 a.

1685
01:50:10,464 --> 01:50:10,604
m.

1686
01:50:10,604 --> 01:50:12,604
To hear that freak on the
other side of the airwaves.

1687
01:50:12,624 --> 01:50:13,134
Give you what?

1688
01:50:13,409 --> 01:50:15,839
He or she knows you desire black moths.

1689
01:50:15,839 --> 01:50:17,719
You have a rainbow probably
live up to the statement.

1690
01:50:17,739 --> 01:50:20,149
When I grew up, I want to
make music just like that.

1691
01:50:20,499 --> 01:50:23,359
This is the grown up sound that
dreams are made of but your eyes

1692
01:50:23,359 --> 01:50:26,159
and ears are open and you can't
believe what you're witnessing in

1693
01:50:26,159 --> 01:50:29,099
this awakened state far fucking out.