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Kyle: Today we're talking about
Mista Don't Play: Everythang's

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Workin by Project Pat.

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Cliff: Unless you have a better idea
and want to interrupt me, I would

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love to just immediately look through
the fourth wall of this podcast

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at other people listening to it.

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Because a little meta conversation
we've had about this episode is.

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Worrying about it being a little one
sided because you have a lot of history

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with this record And I would rather just
immediately sort of diffuse that whole

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idea because one of the reasons we're
talking about this record to begin with

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is because of that and No lie at all You
have been influencing me to listen to

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this record Since I was in the ninth grade
the eighth grade Like this was a favorite

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album for me to listen to in my car as
soon as I had The legal ability to drive

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a car and be by myself in it So I love the
idea that we might get to hear a lot more

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from you about This album in particular.

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And so I'm just hoping that by immediately
standing up and looking at that idea

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square in the eye, that we could just
enjoy the rest of this one, because

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I'm personally looking forward to it,

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Kyle: I've been waiting
for a party to go to that.

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Somebody was like, Hey, who
has thoughts on project Pat?

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Wait, nobody's leave.

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Lock the doors.

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did I burn you a project Pat CD
for your truck back in the day?

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I kind of vaguely remember that.

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Cliff: Oh, this was pre
truck, this was 1984.

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1986, no, 1984 Camaro Z28

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Kyle: yes.

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Did you have the subs in there?

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Cliff: with two JL audio
10 inch subs in the back.

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Like I can't hear songs off of
this record without imagining the

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phantom vibrations of my trunk riding
around town, getting seven miles

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to the gallon with the T tops down.

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Kyle: You look cool as shit though.

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not going to lie.

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Cliff: That's one magic power
of this record for sure.

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Kyle: I meant in the car, but
the car and the record for sure

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Cliff: Camaros Memphis hip hop.

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It's a cool guy starter kit.

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Kyle: in the South of Atlanta suburbs.

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on the thought of meta commentary, you
basically brought it to my attention

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that like I don't even really know
why I like this record so much.

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you said something to the effect of
like, there's two types of people.

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There's people that try to get
into stuff like Southern rap.

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And then there's people who just
like it, you know, who, who you're

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either Southern rapper, you're not,
it's not a music that you can just

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be like, Hey guys, big gulps, huh?

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it's kind of either in you or it isn't.

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And I don't know that
I want to believe that.

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I want to believe that like,
this is the music of my people.

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This is my culture.

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And, uh, I want everybody to
be welcomed into the party.

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I want to ride in the passenger
seat of any car that somebody who's

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driving with two JL audio tens
bumping this, I'll go wherever.

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I'm interested to unpack it a little.

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I think there's a lot to talk about.

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the two things that like really jump out
at me about all of this are idiosyncrasy.

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you're going back to a piece of source
material that there's nothing like this

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and it's unique and distinctive even
against itself and all the stuff that

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this group of people was making and.

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often imitated, never duplicated.

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I knew this was extremely
influential music.

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I'm aware of what's happening in hip hop
and popular culture in the 21st century.

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I'm as plugged in as I ever was.

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I love hip hop as much as I ever have.

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I think it's an extraordinarily good
time for hip hop in spite of what people

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may say, like that's a hill I'd die on.

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But like all of it comes from this
some percentage of all of it comes from

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this and like very specifically from
this record actually I'm just really

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excited for the thought of like somebody
will have never heard of Project Pat

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or heard the name or something and
then stuff of like a hundred things

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will start clicking immediately and
then we're like Oh, this is This is

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a very recent Rosetta Stone thing.

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So there's that it'll, I think it'll
make a bunch of pop culture, click

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into place and the shit's just dope.

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Just on like a reptile brain level.

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If it doesn't hit you in your pineal
gland or whatever, money back guarantee.

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Pato

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Cliff: pat cadence on purpose all that
stuff clicks in like you were saying.

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I mean, that's just what I mean, mention
several later, but, even down to like a

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Megan Thee Stallion song just from the
last few years where she, at a really

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particular moment, drops four bars
as Project Pat, effectively, right?

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And then goes back and it's like
you're saying, it's, it's everywhere

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and it's permeated so much of it.

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I do think as  There are moments and
as we discuss music where we might want

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to dial up that we are southern boys
And then sometimes dial that back down.

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It doesn't feel great all the time
these days, but to your points there

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Is something inherently cultural about
this, which just by being from the South,

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having spent, both of us have family and
have spent a lot of time in Tennessee,

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and, in and around Memphis, um, but also
Nashville and just like that area where.

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They're kinda hard to express, but even
when we were in high school to some

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degree, there was a moment in time where
a lot of people sat around with each

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other doing nothing, listening to this
music in someone's car in a parking

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Kyle: in a parking lot.

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Cliff: because that's how kind
of third places used to work.

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And,

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Kyle: And like, so important to
note how car culture really plays

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a role in this and in Southern
culture in general, like we don't

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have the Northeastern density and.

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There's not enough singularity like on
the West Coast in a single neighborhood

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to warrant anything like that.

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And not only are you like car hopping
around in your own city or your metro

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area, but like the South is so regional,
you know, you, you mentioned Memphis

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and Nashville, which are what, two
and a half, three hours apart drive,

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Cliff: huh,

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Kyle: you know, you do that you do.

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Jackson, Mississippi, you do Huntsville
and Birmingham, Alabama, you do the

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Florida panhandle, you know, you do
Savannah, Macon, Augusta, Columbia, South

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Carolina, if you're in the car, you tend
to be going a lot of places like the

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Southeast is as big as a, a major chunk of
the European Union and you just spend time

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traversing it about as much as a European.

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It's just like kind of what we do.

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Cliff: yep, driving in cars with bad
gas mileage to go taste how biscuits

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and barbecue are cooked in all
the different places that you just

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mentioned because they're all unique.

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Kyle: Man, a Bryant's biscuit.

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Have you ever had a
Brian's biscuit in Memphis?

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Cliff: no, but it's on the top of my mind
every time I go near it, because I tried

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last time I was around because you told me
I needed to, and something prevented me,

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and it will not prevent me the next time.

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Kyle: I haven't been in a long time.

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it's probably been at least 10 years if
not longer since we did Memphis, but man,

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it that was a bit like I don't know if we
have an equivalent on this podcast, but

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I guess it was like, we, we talked on the
last episode about Grace Jones in Jamaica.

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And then I, I made the whole
like Palm desert analogy.

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It was a bit like going to the
Palm desert and being like,

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Oh, there's a frequency here.

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there's a thing Memphis is like a,
it's very different within the South.

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It's like super working
class, blue collar.

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There's a lot of like factory jobs still.

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It's the gateway to the
Midwest because Arkansas is.

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right over the bridge, you
know, West Memphis, Arkansas

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is right over that bridge.

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so it's situated in a really
interesting place with interstate

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commerce and like you hear in a
lot of hypnotized camp stuff, them

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talking about interstate commerce
and trafficking and drug trafficking

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to be specific, that sort of thing.

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a bunch of real life stuff, and I guess
that's another thing to address right off

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the rip is like, you're listening to two
upper middle class white guys who like

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probably have no business weighing in
on and speculating about, all the socio

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cultural layers that you can unpack with
this, and the last thing that I want to

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do is sound like a guy that's writing his
thesis on it, I don't think that I will,

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but if you're a person that Feels like you
can't connect on that wavelength because

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they're talking about shit that makes
you uncomfortable I think there's another

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level that you can get to with this still

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Cliff: For sure.

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As usual, we will set the example of
showing people how to sincerely like

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a thing without being totally cringy
about it all the time and learning

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how to like a thing and then let
you get energy from liking a thing

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and then go learn more about it.

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We have a range of albums and always
talk about the different ways that it

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will send you downstream, for other
artists and genres and everything else.

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And what's cool about this one is it will,
I mean, the stream that it sends you down

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into is Everything is all of it, and I
even sort of laughed at myself hearing

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you mention Memphis, like we need to give
this, you know, kind of short defense of

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it to people who have maybe never been
around it, because I think on the other

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hand, even culturally, How many people
remember that Memphis is where rock and

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roll came from and where the blues came
from, like what we're about to listen to

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and talk about is yet another genre of
music that emerged almost whole cloth from

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an area because of its like density of
culture and people who were in community

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together wanted to make music together
and like, I don't know, people think

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that the Vortexes are over Sedona or
whatever, but something went on in Memphis

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and has gone on there for a long time.

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And it's always fun to dig it back up
for people who have never even thought

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to drive by that part of the country.

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Kyle: yeah, I mean the the Most
beautiful and the ugliest stuff about

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civil rights all lives in Memphis.

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And I guess I, I didn't really think
that much about that in the context of

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this episode, but you know, you go to
Memphis, you go inside Sun Records and

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you think about Johnny Cash, you know,
singular beloved across racial lines

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and Jerry Lee Lewis and all those guys.

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You go to stacks, like I shed tears on
the organ in the a room that green onions

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was played on because that shit changed
my life, you know, there's like a short

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three song list of songs that Sound like
whatever cells are plumping pumping in my

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blood and it's spodey odie green onions
and probably one other thing and it's also

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the home of the Lorraine motel where Dr.

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King was assassinated.

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Uh, and there's still a palpable
heaviness at that place.

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So like there's beauty when you
learn about something like the MGs,

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there's the ugliness when you go
to a place like the Lorraine motel.

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There's sorts of social strata
crime and stuff in Memphis.

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It's got a, it's got a pretty
gritty, hard nosed reputation,

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but it's also got Beale street.

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It's the home of the greatest blues,
you can go to like places that are

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basically old houses and they're
like BYOB joints and people play

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till all hours of the morning.

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So yeah, it's, you know, if you love
New Orleans, if you love Chicago, if

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you love any of those towns that like
you associate with music, Memphis has a

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really underrated reputation for being
a place where like music is essential.

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It's in its bones.

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Cliff: So I feel a little compelled
almost from watching a recent interview.

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With Patrick Earl Houston, Project Pat
here listening to him talk for a while

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and hearing him give his perspective
on how he got into rap to begin with.

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It went through his brother and so
whereas in, in a lot of cases, like we,

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I feel like we go out of our way to not
imply that people just sort of like fell

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into music or that, you know, someone on
affiliated with the artists themselves

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actually drug them along and made the
difference that we're talking about.

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But like, in this particular case,
Pat pretty specifically laid out.

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Got in through his brother, and I think
that's maybe the best place for, uh, if

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you're cool with it for us, kind of like
set up camp and start drawing out a little

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map of what was happening in Memphis,
maybe just a little bit before this, so we

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can get a little bit of a lead up to how
we ended up on this record in particular.

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Kyle: Yeah, I wish that I knew everything
about the late 80s, early 90s, like

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immediately pre Triple Six Mafia,
pro like Prophet Posse Era of things.

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Kingpin, Skinnypimp, all that sort of
stuff was also thinking back to, we did

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the spinoff in 2020, the tuned radio, and
we talked about sampling and I spent a

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big chunk of that episode talking about
juicy J and how I think he's like actually

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one of the best producers in hip hop
and not just cause they have a signature

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sound, but like, because he is so musical.

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and there's a lot more musicality
across the sort of collective than I

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even knew when I started reading more.

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So this record came out
in February of 2001.

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The past output goes all the
way back to the early nineties.

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in the late eighties, you have a handful
of teenagers, like a couple of little

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clusters of teens, one being DJ Paul and
Lord infamous, uh, learning to play music.

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And then you have Juicy J learning
to DJ and wanting to become a singer

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slash actor slash entertainer.

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and Juicy J is Pat's brother and
the two sort of camps intersect and

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00:13:28,740 --> 00:13:29,910
they're like, you're doing dope shit.

218
00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:30,830
We're doing dope shit.

219
00:13:31,410 --> 00:13:33,460
Why don't we link up and
try some stuff together?

220
00:13:34,110 --> 00:13:40,966
So you start seeing Pat pop up on versus
on Juicy songs as far back as like 91.

221
00:13:41,060 --> 00:13:44,783
So That should give you a sense of
like how long he's been in the game.

222
00:13:45,473 --> 00:13:49,323
Mr. Don't play is, is like sort
of 10 or 11 years into wrapping.

223
00:13:49,411 --> 00:13:53,024
what you'll notice if you go back and
I didn't realize how true this was.

224
00:13:53,030 --> 00:13:56,505
It's like that signature Pat style
has kind of always been there.

225
00:13:56,565 --> 00:13:57,915
It's been there for a really long time.

226
00:13:58,065 --> 00:14:01,185
And we'll, I'm sure we'll talk in a
little bit about like how that was.

227
00:14:01,203 --> 00:14:04,589
Encouraged or nurtured out by the
musicality of the people around them.

228
00:14:05,289 --> 00:14:09,442
But like I was listening back to,
all these songs have been sampled now

229
00:14:09,532 --> 00:14:12,515
by someone, by the way, uh, there's
a song called nine to your dome.

230
00:14:12,557 --> 00:14:15,477
The juicy did 94 project Pat flow on that.

231
00:14:16,197 --> 00:14:20,987
There is a song on the record, the end
by three six mafia that came out in 97,

232
00:14:21,017 --> 00:14:24,347
but I think it was recorded a little
earlier than that, where the kill is hang.

233
00:14:24,429 --> 00:14:25,749
Signature pat on that.

234
00:14:25,829 --> 00:14:27,389
And it's just like all through there.

235
00:14:27,979 --> 00:14:28,969
It's all dotted.

236
00:14:29,102 --> 00:14:33,228
So he's built up this thing, and then,
true to Pat fashion I guess, he like, you

237
00:14:33,228 --> 00:14:35,278
won't find Pat stuff for a little while.

238
00:14:35,723 --> 00:14:38,293
Cliff: I see there's a gap
in your working history here.

239
00:14:38,293 --> 00:14:40,153
Can you tell us a little
bit more about that?

240
00:14:40,248 --> 00:14:43,648
Kyle: I was wasting away in Memphis
equivalent of Margaritaville.

241
00:14:44,168 --> 00:14:48,948
Uh, yeah, he went, uh, if I
fuck up, I'mma go downtown, man.

242
00:14:48,968 --> 00:14:51,768
He did, for several years,
because of robbery charges.

243
00:14:52,563 --> 00:14:54,383
Cliff: listening to him recount.

244
00:14:54,703 --> 00:14:59,969
That whole situation and how it ended up
was I hesitate to use this word, but I

245
00:14:59,969 --> 00:15:02,029
don't have a better one really endearing.

246
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,873
the way that he would talk about those
moments in his life when he was kind

247
00:15:05,873 --> 00:15:09,413
of being interviewed and being asked
about him in a pretty no nonsense way.

248
00:15:09,733 --> 00:15:13,173
And he would like, he would just be
like, listen, I'm, he's one of those

249
00:15:13,173 --> 00:15:16,323
people who likes to tell you that he's
straight up with you all the time.

250
00:15:16,973 --> 00:15:17,563
Kyle: ha ha!

251
00:15:17,563 --> 00:15:18,112
ha!

252
00:15:18,383 --> 00:15:21,372
Cliff: but seems to break in the
direction of like, I think he's actually.

253
00:15:21,783 --> 00:15:24,673
Actually that way the whole
time and not covering it up.

254
00:15:24,673 --> 00:15:24,933
Right.

255
00:15:25,303 --> 00:15:29,303
And so he'd kind of preface it with
like, I'll be straight with you about it.

256
00:15:29,553 --> 00:15:34,830
And then he just like talked exactly
about his role in a crime, exactly how

257
00:15:34,830 --> 00:15:40,490
it happened, exactly how, how and why he
thought it was a good idea at the time.

258
00:15:40,910 --> 00:15:44,077
And in that moment, and then
in a few others, throughout.

259
00:15:44,077 --> 00:15:47,037
You know, some pretty negative moments
of his life that he was recounting.

260
00:15:47,507 --> 00:15:50,517
It was interesting, though, because
he would draw out a thread that

261
00:15:50,517 --> 00:15:52,317
we might touch on as we go along.

262
00:15:52,777 --> 00:15:56,547
But he was like, you know, I actually,
when I think about myself making

263
00:15:56,547 --> 00:16:01,807
those decisions, I recognize that I
had a moment of decision where the

264
00:16:01,807 --> 00:16:08,347
part of me that was a church going
Christian had a perspective on whether

265
00:16:08,347 --> 00:16:09,877
I should be doing this thing or not.

266
00:16:10,047 --> 00:16:12,207
He was like, you know, and then
you got the devil on your shoulder

267
00:16:12,207 --> 00:16:15,677
and he was like, I'm telling
you, I did the wrong thing.

268
00:16:15,807 --> 00:16:19,627
And I can remember the feeling of
like kind of choosing the wrong thing.

269
00:16:20,034 --> 00:16:22,929
It was about money and that's what I
thought I needed to do and I did it,

270
00:16:23,379 --> 00:16:28,790
but it's just like to hear honesty about
it without, any veneer of like, I need

271
00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:33,420
you to not look at me bad because I
did this or I'm going to glorify this

272
00:16:33,430 --> 00:16:34,840
and I need you to think it was cool.

273
00:16:35,050 --> 00:16:37,260
Both of them just like,
Nope, this is what happened.

274
00:16:37,270 --> 00:16:38,300
This is what I did.

275
00:16:38,525 --> 00:16:39,795
This is why I went to prison.

276
00:16:39,805 --> 00:16:41,695
This is what I thought
about while I was there.

277
00:16:41,955 --> 00:16:44,275
No, I don't think that it was a good idea.

278
00:16:44,575 --> 00:16:47,531
Uh, I did the best I could at the
time, and just learning a little bit

279
00:16:47,531 --> 00:16:51,824
more about this person, I think is,
something that helped rekindle an

280
00:16:51,824 --> 00:16:55,834
appreciation for this record that I
could not have had as a 15 year old.

281
00:16:56,684 --> 00:16:57,264
Kyle: That's real.

282
00:16:57,298 --> 00:17:03,428
I You know, hearing you talk just now,
I was sitting here thinking about how

283
00:17:03,428 --> 00:17:09,438
we've been grappling with artists and
whether they're good or bad, you know,

284
00:17:09,538 --> 00:17:14,218
like the Marvin Gaye episode, and we've
touched on that a number of times.

285
00:17:14,686 --> 00:17:18,706
here with Pat, it's like, you have a
lot of both, especially if you're coming

286
00:17:18,706 --> 00:17:24,446
into a new and 2025, like you have
some really good stuff, some really bad

287
00:17:24,446 --> 00:17:28,696
stuff, and then right in the middle,
you have this lightning bolt music

288
00:17:28,706 --> 00:17:30,456
that makes you feel some type of way.

289
00:17:30,622 --> 00:17:31,371
And.

290
00:17:31,424 --> 00:17:34,974
it just sort of eliminates any
need to put yourself in a camp or

291
00:17:34,974 --> 00:17:36,474
do that, you know, Reddit shit.

292
00:17:36,474 --> 00:17:37,804
I'm for it or against it.

293
00:17:37,810 --> 00:17:38,326
it's good.

294
00:17:38,366 --> 00:17:43,143
So maybe Pat is a good exercise in
music, like a, palate cleanser to be

295
00:17:43,143 --> 00:17:48,073
like, yeah, he's good and bad and so
am I, and so it was everything and

296
00:17:48,133 --> 00:17:51,786
all right, just play the fucking,
you know, and that hadn't occurred

297
00:17:51,826 --> 00:17:53,446
to me either, so I appreciate that,

298
00:17:53,645 --> 00:17:56,565
Cliff: So that, that speaks to
the gap in his resume, perhaps.

299
00:17:58,952 --> 00:18:00,342
Kyle: uh, but it gets right back to work.

300
00:18:00,567 --> 00:18:05,697
He reemerges around 98 with a group
called the Kazi, which is him and a

301
00:18:05,697 --> 00:18:09,711
couple of other guys that were like the
story of like what became hypnotized

302
00:18:09,751 --> 00:18:14,381
minds and the like iconic classic DJ
Paul, juicy J thing that really went

303
00:18:14,381 --> 00:18:16,021
on a run in the early two thousands.

304
00:18:16,611 --> 00:18:21,711
There's some other players in that orbit
sort of like early odd future had some

305
00:18:21,711 --> 00:18:25,601
random people in it that didn't wind up
being sort of like the final core crew.

306
00:18:25,601 --> 00:18:28,401
Yet another episode where we're talking
about the power of the collective.

307
00:18:28,766 --> 00:18:31,096
here and like achieving more
than the sum of their parts.

308
00:18:31,292 --> 00:18:35,732
so he did a record with the Kazi and
then in 99 puts out his solo, you know,

309
00:18:35,732 --> 00:18:40,744
quote unquote, debut Getty green on his
brother, juicy's hypnotized minds label.

310
00:18:40,754 --> 00:18:44,587
So like up and going at this point,
three sixes put out a couple of records

311
00:18:44,587 --> 00:18:46,597
like mystic styles came out in 95.

312
00:18:46,757 --> 00:18:48,397
It was an underground cult classic.

313
00:18:48,657 --> 00:18:50,427
The end comes out in 97.

314
00:18:50,887 --> 00:18:54,277
There's like a bunch of
underground mixtape stuff.

315
00:18:54,817 --> 00:18:57,847
They're really starting to like pop off
in Memphis in the South, sort of like the

316
00:18:57,847 --> 00:19:00,257
second big wave behind eight ball and MJG.

317
00:19:00,277 --> 00:19:03,647
What I think is interesting about
the debut and a lot of these

318
00:19:03,647 --> 00:19:08,447
records is hypnotized minds was
put out through loud records,

319
00:19:08,512 --> 00:19:10,596
which is like a real through line.

320
00:19:11,036 --> 00:19:11,726
There's that cat.

321
00:19:11,796 --> 00:19:14,346
His last name is Rifkin
was a loud records guy.

322
00:19:15,006 --> 00:19:21,366
Was putting out like street stuff, not
shiny veneer number once done, uh, like

323
00:19:21,406 --> 00:19:25,539
trying to be cosmopolitan playing in the
mall type rap shit we're talking about.

324
00:19:25,539 --> 00:19:28,208
They put out Wu Tang 36 chambers in 93.

325
00:19:28,553 --> 00:19:31,183
They put out Only Built for
Cuban Links by Ghostface.

326
00:19:31,573 --> 00:19:34,393
They put out all the
major Mobb Deep records.

327
00:19:34,393 --> 00:19:36,736
So you're talking about Shook
Ones Part Two, Exist in the

328
00:19:36,736 --> 00:19:38,156
World because of Loud Records.

329
00:19:38,556 --> 00:19:42,001
Talking about M. O. P., Ante Up, still
one of the hardest rap songs ever.

330
00:19:42,011 --> 00:19:45,291
You're talking about The Executioners,
which I know you have a special love

331
00:19:45,291 --> 00:19:49,201
for because of that one song that
was pretty popular for a minute.

332
00:19:49,311 --> 00:19:50,948
but like hard stuff.

333
00:19:51,176 --> 00:19:55,008
not big boys, the way you move,
listen with your mom types up

334
00:19:55,018 --> 00:19:55,968
with all respect to that song.

335
00:19:55,978 --> 00:19:57,178
Cause that's one of the
greatest songs ever.

336
00:19:57,380 --> 00:20:01,735
and then I guess kind of like the moment,
the sort of crossover moment, if there

337
00:20:01,735 --> 00:20:05,527
is one here, I think it's a crossover
moment because like this record went gold.

338
00:20:05,547 --> 00:20:08,182
It was, this record was number
four on billboard at like the

339
00:20:08,182 --> 00:20:12,672
height of CD sales, you know, 17
CDs of the turn of the century.

340
00:20:12,672 --> 00:20:13,012
So.

341
00:20:13,059 --> 00:20:16,589
That a record that's talking about
like robbing and killing and all

342
00:20:16,589 --> 00:20:22,294
that stuff as flatly and Ken Burns
ly as it does, went number four.

343
00:20:22,449 --> 00:20:26,601
Now being a little older, I can understand
why culture scared the shit out of

344
00:20:26,601 --> 00:20:27,941
parents at the turn of the century.

345
00:20:28,471 --> 00:20:32,541
This and Marilyn Manson and Eminem
and all that, like, what is happening?

346
00:20:33,121 --> 00:20:36,251
a little less worried about kids
now if that's what it was like

347
00:20:36,251 --> 00:20:37,814
when we were early teenagers.

348
00:20:37,845 --> 00:20:41,876
So the moment was sipping on
some syrup, 2000, three, six

349
00:20:41,876 --> 00:20:44,007
project, Pat UGK, huge meetup.

350
00:20:44,164 --> 00:20:47,346
so you're talking about this
comes out around the time of, Miss

351
00:20:47,346 --> 00:20:49,942
Jackson, like early stankonia, huge.

352
00:20:49,942 --> 00:20:52,001
This is the moment Southern
rap goes on the map.

353
00:20:52,002 --> 00:20:56,222
It's easy to forget now because of the
25 year dominance, but Southern rap

354
00:20:56,222 --> 00:20:58,402
did not used to be culturally dominant.

355
00:20:58,432 --> 00:20:59,652
And it was talked about in wheel.

356
00:20:59,652 --> 00:21:01,432
Like I, I sent you a weird.

357
00:21:02,032 --> 00:21:06,309
Super cringy NME review where they're,
they're talking about it in like, big

358
00:21:06,309 --> 00:21:11,749
daddy Kane pimp language  but like sipping
on some syrup wouldn't exist without Pat,

359
00:21:11,869 --> 00:21:15,989
you know, because he does the hook, but
the hook comes from an almost throwaway

360
00:21:15,989 --> 00:21:18,755
line from the song ballers on Getty Green.

361
00:21:18,878 --> 00:21:22,546
And it's like one of the most iconic
hooks in all of Southern rap and

362
00:21:22,546 --> 00:21:24,394
in all of 21st century hip hop.

363
00:21:24,434 --> 00:21:27,003
so I think that's a, like, I
want to stop down and be like,

364
00:21:27,423 --> 00:21:28,833
that's a project pat thing.

365
00:21:28,881 --> 00:21:32,374
And he said that in another interview
where he was like, I have the

366
00:21:32,374 --> 00:21:36,655
ability to take a throwaway line
and make a whole song around it.

367
00:21:36,755 --> 00:21:40,015
Like from anyone, he said specifically
from Pac and Biggie, like I'll take a

368
00:21:40,015 --> 00:21:42,793
word or an idea and I'll, I'll write
a whole song around it, but like.

369
00:21:43,016 --> 00:21:44,166
that's not easy.

370
00:21:44,205 --> 00:21:45,045
That's an understatement.

371
00:21:45,135 --> 00:21:46,134
That's not easy at all

372
00:21:46,134 --> 00:21:48,940
Cliff: Also, this song was everywhere.

373
00:21:48,940 --> 00:21:49,748
Everywhere.

374
00:21:49,748 --> 00:21:51,148
Everyone knew this song.

375
00:21:51,161 --> 00:21:55,171
Kyle: And it's it's you know for the
olds and for the Midwesterners it's

376
00:21:55,171 --> 00:21:57,409
about abusing prescription cough syrup

377
00:21:57,457 --> 00:22:01,404
Cliff: They can ask AI for the
recipe for lean or whatever.

378
00:22:01,404 --> 00:22:02,814
That's not what this is about.

379
00:22:05,384 --> 00:22:09,114
Kyle: used to be a country it's
opioids now used to be promethazine

380
00:22:09,164 --> 00:22:12,761
Cliff: Yeah, the song was everywhere,
we all knowingly sang it as basically

381
00:22:12,771 --> 00:22:15,211
children who did not drink syrup.

382
00:22:15,541 --> 00:22:17,231
So, we're in the clear.

383
00:22:17,471 --> 00:22:20,685
At least for a few years until we could
figure out how to read ingredients lists.

384
00:22:20,777 --> 00:22:24,387
Kyle: Yeah, the, I'm gonna get a
grape soda and a styrofoam cup.

385
00:22:24,497 --> 00:22:28,318
So I got some, some purple drink
to carry around also sample great.

386
00:22:28,506 --> 00:22:32,528
going back to soul, great Marvin
Gaye sample, not from the record

387
00:22:32,528 --> 00:22:35,876
we covered, but from the followup
record song called, is that enough?

388
00:22:35,977 --> 00:22:39,718
And really like, Juicy J and some
of the guys that I play football

389
00:22:39,718 --> 00:22:44,068
with are like the two reasons that I
love old soul music as much as I do.

390
00:22:44,088 --> 00:22:47,312
I learned about so many artists
because of Juicy J samples.

391
00:22:47,312 --> 00:22:51,091
Got into Marvin Gaye, learned about
Willie Hutch, learned about the OJs.

392
00:22:51,217 --> 00:22:52,167
I'm sure there are others.

393
00:22:52,253 --> 00:22:56,544
Cliff: So maybe it's time to make
a pit stop into, Sorry, I'm caught

394
00:22:56,544 --> 00:23:00,004
up in my head trying to imagine
what it might be like to have never

395
00:23:00,004 --> 00:23:02,004
heard a record like this before.

396
00:23:04,839 --> 00:23:05,469
to put it on.

397
00:23:06,137 --> 00:23:07,247
But getting past that.

398
00:23:07,257 --> 00:23:10,927
So thinking about some ways to
take this thing in fresh, uh, and

399
00:23:10,927 --> 00:23:14,717
considering that as we have covered
here to very different degrees,

400
00:23:14,727 --> 00:23:16,707
probably orders of magnitude different.

401
00:23:16,820 --> 00:23:20,631
you and I have both, had such a
history with this record specifically

402
00:23:20,631 --> 00:23:24,941
that there is no taking it in fresh
that we could possibly do anymore.

403
00:23:25,301 --> 00:23:26,081
Uh, but.

404
00:23:26,706 --> 00:23:31,776
I do feel like I noticed a few things
trying to shift this record into

405
00:23:32,506 --> 00:23:37,066
serious music listening mode instead
of the usual places that I love to

406
00:23:37,066 --> 00:23:38,896
put this or have put it in the past.

407
00:23:39,461 --> 00:23:42,881
Kyle: Well, I feel like you
listen to this kind of music less

408
00:23:42,891 --> 00:23:44,811
frequently than I do these days.

409
00:23:44,811 --> 00:23:45,911
Is that safe to say?

410
00:23:46,051 --> 00:23:47,481
Cliff: That's a confirm.

411
00:23:47,491 --> 00:23:49,121
Yeah, I think so.

412
00:23:49,701 --> 00:23:54,998
Kyle: So like if anybody can
listen fresher, it's probably you.

413
00:23:55,428 --> 00:23:59,143
So like you know, with your 2025
eyes and ears, what jumped out?

414
00:23:59,143 --> 00:23:59,943
What surprised you?

415
00:24:00,091 --> 00:24:04,956
Cliff: Appreciating smaller details that
I can hear when I listen differently now

416
00:24:04,986 --> 00:24:11,184
on more modern forms of music output, uh,
than the kinds of things I was throwing

417
00:24:11,184 --> 00:24:18,065
together, uh, as I I taught myself car
audio as a child I'm only being sort of

418
00:24:18,065 --> 00:24:24,383
facetious, like, for real, everything
sounds completely distinct and different

419
00:24:24,703 --> 00:24:29,433
than I sort of remember it feeling and
sounding like in the places that I used

420
00:24:29,443 --> 00:24:35,497
to spend this so much, so then what stands
out to me is more of like hearing the,

421
00:24:35,519 --> 00:24:41,394
bells, the samples in the little, Extra
touches that are in here because I don't

422
00:24:41,594 --> 00:24:46,371
you know, hopefully it wouldn't be oddly
offensive to note this from my perspective

423
00:24:46,371 --> 00:24:49,610
like the beats are Not complicated On

424
00:24:49,620 --> 00:24:50,280
Kyle: Oh, not at all.

425
00:24:50,420 --> 00:24:50,780
Cliff: right?

426
00:24:51,210 --> 00:24:53,780
And that's sort of a staple of the genre.

427
00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:59,739
And so if you are, you know, a kid
and therefore an idiot listening

428
00:24:59,739 --> 00:25:03,359
to this, you're also kind of like
smooth braining the whole experience

429
00:25:03,609 --> 00:25:07,649
and like flattening it into the
beat and the lyrics and whatever.

430
00:25:07,869 --> 00:25:11,317
And so being able to go back and just
like Hear the detail that I hadn't

431
00:25:11,327 --> 00:25:15,717
heard before, and then once again
remind myself, Oh yeah, I'm listening

432
00:25:15,717 --> 00:25:17,637
to hip hop, that came from somewhere!

433
00:25:17,887 --> 00:25:23,056
And then giving myself little jumping
off points, uh, which, I mean Honestly,

434
00:25:23,056 --> 00:25:28,136
I don't think I've had as much delight
sample chasing as I have on this

435
00:25:28,136 --> 00:25:32,936
one in particular because the songs
that it sends you to are hilarious.

436
00:25:33,406 --> 00:25:33,776
Like,

437
00:25:36,236 --> 00:25:42,776
and I mean that with true and genuine
respect towards 80s and 90s rap

438
00:25:42,916 --> 00:25:45,716
aficionados and folks who love it.

439
00:25:46,176 --> 00:25:46,746
It's cool.

440
00:25:46,876 --> 00:25:52,116
but the, the very particular hops
along the stops of chasing some of the

441
00:25:52,116 --> 00:25:56,616
samples here are just like songs that
actually made me laugh because they

442
00:25:56,616 --> 00:26:02,456
felt like high, loose energy types of
songs that were coming out so early.

443
00:26:02,676 --> 00:26:06,056
There was nothing to prove, nothing
to do, nothing to sound like.

444
00:26:06,496 --> 00:26:11,340
But that led to, Once again, a
recurring theme of this podcast

445
00:26:11,540 --> 00:26:15,060
can you do a lyric that makes
Cliff crawl up inside of himself?

446
00:26:15,970 --> 00:26:19,500
and yeah, I found some
easily chasing things here.

447
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:24,250
Um, but it was just truly like
paying attention, not only to.

448
00:26:24,675 --> 00:26:28,465
Uh, the details, but specifically the
details that are in like a particular part

449
00:26:28,735 --> 00:26:34,325
of the sonic register was something that I
could do differently now and feels obvious

450
00:26:34,335 --> 00:26:39,547
to say in retrospect, but like a 2001 hip
hop album sounds fundamentally different

451
00:26:39,557 --> 00:26:43,567
in the ways that I can listen to it now
than it did in any of the ways that I had

452
00:26:43,567 --> 00:26:46,087
available to me even then, and that's.

453
00:26:46,582 --> 00:26:52,822
If the rip on a CD that I had
was even somewhat above 128 or

454
00:26:52,832 --> 00:26:54,242
something like that, you know?

455
00:26:54,912 --> 00:27:00,194
So, unironically, the kind of clarity
of this album comes back out to me,

456
00:27:00,384 --> 00:27:04,564
and that sort of surprised me because
of how sort of unexpected it was.

457
00:27:04,921 --> 00:27:08,774
and that, that just, sent me on a bunch
of joyous little trails, listening to

458
00:27:08,774 --> 00:27:10,164
a bunch of different songs on this one.

459
00:27:10,411 --> 00:27:14,160
Kyle: there one or two moments or
sounds in particular that you were

460
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:19,520
like, Oh, or, or a vibe that you,
or a vibe that you were drawn to?

461
00:27:19,693 --> 00:27:24,113
Cliff: Yeah they're heavily weighted
in a few different directions.

462
00:27:24,643 --> 00:27:29,264
I like, it's almost embarrassing to
the degree that I'm weighed towards

463
00:27:29,284 --> 00:27:31,514
the very first track on this album.

464
00:27:31,814 --> 00:27:36,794
it's not only the first song, On
this album and like a huge hit,

465
00:27:37,044 --> 00:27:41,114
but was also the first song on
whatever CD that I had this on.

466
00:27:41,304 --> 00:27:45,336
So it's just a hundred percent of the
time I was hitting chicken head and like

467
00:27:45,353 --> 00:27:51,628
It got deeply ingrained in my being, and
so, but that said, it's like a Pavlov's

468
00:27:51,638 --> 00:27:53,958
bell type of thing at this point, right?

469
00:27:53,968 --> 00:28:00,948
Like the, everything about it snaps me
into a particular way of feeling, uh, and

470
00:28:00,948 --> 00:28:05,223
it still works to this day and, but what.

471
00:28:05,893 --> 00:28:08,812
What I think delighted me, and we'll
talk a little bit more about it, So,

472
00:28:08,822 --> 00:28:14,662
going back to the songs that I knew the
best and liked the most, um, Chicken

473
00:28:14,662 --> 00:28:20,522
Head, Aggravated Robbery just ones that
I definitely liked a lot and spun a ton.

474
00:28:20,522 --> 00:28:24,892
It was then noticing like, oh, wait,
In the little kind of skit thing

475
00:28:24,892 --> 00:28:28,312
that happens in Aggravated Robbery,
Chickenhead plays in the background.

476
00:28:28,642 --> 00:28:32,912
And like, the little loops of things
that I could sort of appreciate, and it's

477
00:28:32,912 --> 00:28:38,412
like, Putting on my musical brain that
I've gotten in the time since this record

478
00:28:38,412 --> 00:28:44,642
came out and seeing and appreciating
hip hop artists like, Kendrick, Vince

479
00:28:44,652 --> 00:28:50,172
Staples, people who just like do detailed
things on purpose and then sort of

480
00:28:50,172 --> 00:28:51,882
demand that you come along with it.

481
00:28:52,332 --> 00:28:56,582
It made me appreciate that a lot of
that stuff was probably hiding in songs

482
00:28:56,582 --> 00:29:00,432
and records that we didn't really know
how to appreciate that fully back then.

483
00:29:01,557 --> 00:29:05,637
Because it hadn't gotten so, you
know, maybe production level blown

484
00:29:05,637 --> 00:29:07,687
out and detailed and all that stuff.

485
00:29:07,687 --> 00:29:11,317
So, a few of them throw me right
back into the same vibe, for sure.

486
00:29:11,587 --> 00:29:15,241
But even just like, speaking of
aggravated robbery, like I can't

487
00:29:15,251 --> 00:29:19,891
even tell now whether there is
like a mandala effect going on with

488
00:29:19,891 --> 00:29:23,161
the genre of horrorcore that 3.

489
00:29:23,161 --> 00:29:23,811
6 spun up.

490
00:29:24,051 --> 00:29:28,651
Because now when I hear things
like the main hooks and aggravated

491
00:29:28,651 --> 00:29:31,431
robbery, like, it sounds scary to me.

492
00:29:31,821 --> 00:29:36,685
And sounds like it, I truly can't even
tell anymore whether I've just like

493
00:29:36,705 --> 00:29:42,895
mentally associated, uh, what, like how
that genre spun up their appreciation

494
00:29:42,895 --> 00:29:46,535
for horror films and all those sounds
and how it permeated music quickly.

495
00:29:46,765 --> 00:29:50,535
I can't tell whether that's what
I'm actually hearing here or whether

496
00:29:50,535 --> 00:29:53,925
just in retrospect, learning what
all that stuff meant as I got older.

497
00:29:54,145 --> 00:29:56,765
Now I'm just sort of projecting
onto it, but it's like.

498
00:29:56,765 --> 00:30:02,505
Songs like those have a really
particular visceral feel still to this

499
00:30:02,505 --> 00:30:06,365
day to me, uh, and I love that I can
drop right back in anytime I want.

500
00:30:06,780 --> 00:30:06,990
Kyle: Yeah.

501
00:30:06,990 --> 00:30:10,010
There's some pretty menacing
atmosphere in a lot of those places.

502
00:30:10,105 --> 00:30:11,505
Cliff: That's a good way of putting it.

503
00:30:11,845 --> 00:30:12,215
Yep.

504
00:30:12,690 --> 00:30:16,271
Kyle: but it is very atmospheric, which
is like, You almost wonder if that's

505
00:30:16,281 --> 00:30:22,291
what they were going for because it is so
here's the beat, you know, like hi hat,

506
00:30:22,311 --> 00:30:27,381
synth, bass, whatever, but it's really
atmospheric and kind of world building.

507
00:30:27,458 --> 00:30:31,976
And, saying things about Project Pat
that, out of context, sound like we're

508
00:30:32,086 --> 00:30:34,426
in the Tangerine Dream episode is like,

509
00:30:34,726 --> 00:30:35,136
Cliff: Uh huh.

510
00:30:35,234 --> 00:30:36,464
Kyle: is a little bit of a head trip.

511
00:30:36,742 --> 00:30:41,242
Cliff: So what did you do, knowing you had
to re approach this and think of anything

512
00:30:41,702 --> 00:30:43,545
specific and fresh to say about it?

513
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,960
Kyle: mean, keeping it a book, the big
surprise for me is a person who can listen

514
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:52,450
to songs a thousand times and still get
the lyrics wrong, is hilarious because

515
00:30:52,450 --> 00:30:56,864
I do, I do words professionally, but I
like can't memorize speeches and I can't

516
00:30:56,864 --> 00:30:59,019
remember lyrics and it just is what it is.

517
00:30:59,204 --> 00:31:01,664
I would love for a psychologist
to tell me what that's all about.

518
00:31:01,664 --> 00:31:03,644
Cliff: You can't remember
him and I can't hear him.

519
00:31:03,704 --> 00:31:05,234
We're quite a fucking pair.

520
00:31:06,404 --> 00:31:06,904
Kyle: What?

521
00:31:07,614 --> 00:31:08,154
I don't know.

522
00:31:08,154 --> 00:31:08,934
I'll, I'll figure it out.

523
00:31:08,934 --> 00:31:10,004
I'll tell you again later.

524
00:31:10,077 --> 00:31:11,267
the big thing.

525
00:31:11,752 --> 00:31:14,032
driving around listening to this record.

526
00:31:14,032 --> 00:31:17,782
Again, the car is the best
context for this record always.

527
00:31:17,782 --> 00:31:21,922
And if you can't get access to a car out
of like fucking go on vacation and get a

528
00:31:21,922 --> 00:31:23,392
rental car, it's like kind of worth it.

529
00:31:23,477 --> 00:31:27,237
the big surprise was how many of
the lyrics I know by heart and can

530
00:31:27,237 --> 00:31:32,011
like, say from the diaphragm, with my
whole chest, and how many things have

531
00:31:32,052 --> 00:31:36,932
influenced the cadence of what little
twang that I have as a southerner.

532
00:31:37,049 --> 00:31:41,159
but then just like all these little turns
of phrase and things that he says, like

533
00:31:41,159 --> 00:31:44,959
the one that sticks out to me, one of
the, one of the handful that sticks out

534
00:31:44,959 --> 00:31:51,759
to me is rhyming shizert, like shirt with
outskirts in If You Ain't From My Hood.

535
00:31:51,809 --> 00:31:54,771
Somebody pointed out that that's
actually, that's actually like a

536
00:31:54,771 --> 00:31:56,821
pretty intense piece of poetry.

537
00:31:56,855 --> 00:31:58,889
You got to be pretty smart
to do some shit like that.

538
00:31:58,992 --> 00:32:02,505
you know, somebody like Eminem gets
a lot of credit for pretzeling words

539
00:32:02,505 --> 00:32:06,963
and internal rhyme and stuff, but,
there's like some really innovative

540
00:32:06,963 --> 00:32:09,333
wordplay on this thing, but also.

541
00:32:09,609 --> 00:32:14,019
it's just sort of halfway enough
between eighties and nineties, like I'm

542
00:32:14,019 --> 00:32:19,719
repping, you know, reppity, reppity,
rep, and where things got either more

543
00:32:19,719 --> 00:32:23,289
complicated or more slurry down the line.

544
00:32:23,585 --> 00:32:28,125
We're like a lot of it is really memorable
and almost in a Will Ferrell movie kind

545
00:32:28,125 --> 00:32:33,165
of way where we're like, you're going to
remember lines from this almost certainly,

546
00:32:33,586 --> 00:32:35,196
I'm gonna introduce me project pad.

547
00:32:35,196 --> 00:32:35,846
I keep it real.

548
00:32:35,846 --> 00:32:38,056
I'm gonna introduce you use
the sucker faking deals.

549
00:32:38,163 --> 00:32:40,283
and even back in the
day, like when people.

550
00:32:40,402 --> 00:32:44,102
Hey, when the institution hated
Southern rap and hated this kind

551
00:32:44,102 --> 00:32:48,062
of shit, like Getty green got two
and a half out of five mics and 99.

552
00:32:48,512 --> 00:32:53,182
And even in that review where they spend
most of it dogging on them, they say.

553
00:32:53,712 --> 00:32:57,022
Pat should be given more credit for
developing a style that will easily stand

554
00:32:57,022 --> 00:32:59,532
out in today's crowded world of MCs.

555
00:32:59,816 --> 00:33:02,926
I think if nothing else grabs you,
to your point, there's the clarity of

556
00:33:02,936 --> 00:33:07,288
the sound and there's so many tight
beats and I think this was the, band,

557
00:33:07,288 --> 00:33:10,780
so to speak, that launched a thousand
cracked fruity loops downloads.

558
00:33:12,423 --> 00:33:14,581
Because to your point, you
feel like you can do it, right?

559
00:33:14,611 --> 00:33:17,811
You just put the hi hat, you
put the hi hat four on the floor

560
00:33:17,811 --> 00:33:20,061
hi hat, you find a good 808 you

561
00:33:20,061 --> 00:33:20,391
like.

562
00:33:20,436 --> 00:33:22,256
Cliff: people are doing
with Trap these days.

563
00:33:22,286 --> 00:33:25,306
They listen to it, and you
think you can get there.

564
00:33:25,506 --> 00:33:26,636
It's the, yeah.

565
00:33:27,121 --> 00:33:27,641
Kyle: That's right.

566
00:33:28,081 --> 00:33:31,031
It's hard to make it look
easy, but they do it.

567
00:33:31,065 --> 00:33:34,712
and you have sort of a base B A
S E with the hi hat and the kick.

568
00:33:34,742 --> 00:33:37,901
And then in the middle, you have all these
weird ingredients that you can play with.

569
00:33:37,901 --> 00:33:41,075
And you see throughout the record
that they do a lot of different things

570
00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:42,584
with that, you know, like weird.

571
00:33:46,799 --> 00:33:50,475
and the other thing is also vocal
close, favorite thing to talk about.

572
00:33:50,591 --> 00:33:55,981
you talk about skits the out there
skit right between chicken head and

573
00:33:55,981 --> 00:33:57,621
cheese and dope top of the record.

574
00:33:57,802 --> 00:34:01,623
I remember reading an interview with
Donald Glover when Atlanta first came

575
00:34:01,623 --> 00:34:05,688
out and there's the jail scene where
the guy turns around and talks to him.

576
00:34:05,975 --> 00:34:11,005
about why he got arrested and it's
like, you know, we got the two cans

577
00:34:11,015 --> 00:34:12,105
and they was a big ones though.

578
00:34:12,105 --> 00:34:13,025
There was a big ones though.

579
00:34:13,225 --> 00:34:16,095
And he's like, I wanted to put somebody
like that in the show because I

580
00:34:16,095 --> 00:34:18,525
feel like that accent won't exist.

581
00:34:18,535 --> 00:34:21,465
Like people won't talk like
that 10 or 20 years from now.

582
00:34:22,155 --> 00:34:26,795
And similarly, I appreciate having
grown up around here, talking to

583
00:34:26,795 --> 00:34:29,845
people at the breakfast place.

584
00:34:30,258 --> 00:34:31,884
people aren't going to talk like accents.

585
00:34:31,884 --> 00:34:35,834
Aren't going to be that thick anymore
because of the internet and migration

586
00:34:35,834 --> 00:34:37,274
and deregionalization and whatever.

587
00:34:37,274 --> 00:34:39,084
So it's just like, I'm, I'm glad.

588
00:34:39,084 --> 00:34:42,254
And it makes me want to like,
talk more country, more twangy.

589
00:34:42,254 --> 00:34:43,644
Like I did when I was a little kid.

590
00:34:44,156 --> 00:34:47,836
just total, like I said earlier,
idiosyncrasy and it's all,

591
00:34:47,876 --> 00:34:49,246
it's all memorable for me.

592
00:34:49,346 --> 00:34:54,236
So I, I guess the short answer is, yeah,
I knew it was in my bones, but I was

593
00:34:54,256 --> 00:34:57,576
surprised how in my bones it was like,
shit, is this actually one of my like

594
00:34:57,586 --> 00:34:59,306
top five favorite records of all time?

595
00:34:59,316 --> 00:34:59,626
Maybe.

596
00:34:59,778 --> 00:35:05,528
Cliff: I had the cadence of, uh, If You
Ain't From My Hood, You Can Get From

597
00:35:05,538 --> 00:35:11,518
Around Here, so deep in my psyche that
I didn't remember it was a Project Pat

598
00:35:11,518 --> 00:35:16,688
song, just a thing that goes on repeat
in my head Well, when I want to hide my

599
00:35:16,688 --> 00:35:21,078
thoughts inside of myself and saying a
thing like that as a refrain coming from

600
00:35:21,078 --> 00:35:27,908
my person, uh, but it's like, it's my
brain's response to anybody who has shown

601
00:35:27,908 --> 00:35:29,658
up and started acting like a jackass.

602
00:35:30,298 --> 00:35:34,288
And so, yeah, to your point
deeply embedded in everything.

603
00:35:34,288 --> 00:35:40,216
If I can, though, uh, one thing
that also surprised me truly, um,

604
00:35:42,662 --> 00:35:46,282
Man, I, we've started joking a little
bit about what if people who sort

605
00:35:46,282 --> 00:35:49,612
of know us from other forums make
their way into podcast episodes,

606
00:35:49,612 --> 00:35:52,212
so here's another easter egg.

607
00:35:52,294 --> 00:35:57,044
I highly recommend putting on Memphis
hip hop when you are in a meeting

608
00:35:57,054 --> 00:35:58,864
where you mostly just have to listen.

609
00:35:59,174 --> 00:36:05,004
It trivializes everything
in the best way possible.

610
00:36:05,034 --> 00:36:08,384
I cannot explain what joy
I got from trying this.

611
00:36:08,634 --> 00:36:13,524
Kyle: Hold on, like, like a zoom meeting,
you're on mute and you just have it

612
00:36:13,524 --> 00:36:14,224
playing.

613
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:15,896
Cliff: Uh huh.

614
00:36:15,896 --> 00:36:16,564
I

615
00:36:16,854 --> 00:36:17,434
Kyle: Oh man.

616
00:36:19,024 --> 00:36:23,944
Cliff: can't express the like, the
reminder that you all of a sudden

617
00:36:23,944 --> 00:36:28,374
get of like, Oh my god, we're just
staring into computers at each other

618
00:36:28,744 --> 00:36:33,104
all the time, doing nothing, writing
things down so that we don't forget.

619
00:36:33,604 --> 00:36:37,779
And just, Something about
pairing it with this,

620
00:36:38,214 --> 00:36:39,874
Kyle: You're just like
another project manager.

621
00:36:39,874 --> 00:36:42,144
Like, Kim, there's people that are dying.

622
00:36:42,283 --> 00:36:47,373
Cliff: maybe that pulls on the
threads of, I'll just speak for

623
00:36:47,373 --> 00:36:52,353
myself here just in case, but like
the threads of history where yes,

624
00:36:52,353 --> 00:36:54,323
we went through car culture time.

625
00:36:54,573 --> 00:36:57,273
We also went through like this music.

626
00:36:57,508 --> 00:37:02,818
Is the feeling and the soundtrack
of going over to somebody's house to

627
00:37:02,818 --> 00:37:07,348
smoke and like, if you don't know what
that sentence means, this isn't going

628
00:37:07,348 --> 00:37:12,644
to make a ton of sense, there was a
time and people and place and culture,

629
00:37:12,644 --> 00:37:13,934
like all of them had to combine.

630
00:37:13,934 --> 00:37:18,064
But if you had the right combination,
you would just get invited over and

631
00:37:18,064 --> 00:37:19,554
then you just go to people's houses.

632
00:37:21,049 --> 00:37:25,669
The pinnacle of activity that
could occur or blossom from

633
00:37:25,669 --> 00:37:28,319
that is a game of Halo that

634
00:37:28,434 --> 00:37:29,224
Kyle: was going to say video

635
00:37:29,279 --> 00:37:30,769
Cliff: be quit halfway through.

636
00:37:31,029 --> 00:37:32,319
And like, that was it.

637
00:37:32,379 --> 00:37:33,589
That's the whole activity.

638
00:37:33,729 --> 00:37:35,039
And how long is this going to take?

639
00:37:35,069 --> 00:37:42,199
Well, until we are back to feeling like we
can drive home to wherever we need to go.

640
00:37:42,289 --> 00:37:43,339
That's how long it is.

641
00:37:43,839 --> 00:37:45,009
Kyle: Three games of Madden.

642
00:37:45,049 --> 00:37:48,429
Cliff: Yeah, yup, Halo or Madden
was pretty much the option.

643
00:37:48,899 --> 00:37:52,326
But like, also though, that
feeling of, and I don't want

644
00:37:52,326 --> 00:37:53,686
to oversell it, but it's true.

645
00:37:53,884 --> 00:37:56,724
trying not to spend money, so you're just
hanging out with other people who are also

646
00:37:56,724 --> 00:37:59,224
trying not to spend money, and just chill.

647
00:37:59,594 --> 00:38:00,924
And like, they're, they're,

648
00:38:01,234 --> 00:38:04,284
Kyle: when chips were a dollar,
you could eat a whole big bag

649
00:38:04,354 --> 00:38:04,684
Cliff: I mean,

650
00:38:04,704 --> 00:38:05,034
Kyle: size

651
00:38:05,154 --> 00:38:05,894
Cliff: also true.

652
00:38:06,044 --> 00:38:09,894
Yeah, yeah, you would nominate the
least, um, stoned person to go to the

653
00:38:09,894 --> 00:38:14,464
gas station for you and talk to the
attendant and count out the dollars and

654
00:38:14,769 --> 00:38:14,859
Kyle: Yeah,

655
00:38:15,554 --> 00:38:15,894
Cliff: Yeah.

656
00:38:16,304 --> 00:38:16,444
Yeah.

657
00:38:16,469 --> 00:38:18,789
Kyle: crumpled into the
tiniest ball in your pocket.

658
00:38:18,984 --> 00:38:19,634
Cliff: this it?

659
00:38:19,874 --> 00:38:20,474
Yes?

660
00:38:20,714 --> 00:38:21,544
Can we leave?

661
00:38:21,794 --> 00:38:22,274
Okay.

662
00:38:22,329 --> 00:38:23,489
Kyle: it's too much, it's okay.

663
00:38:23,499 --> 00:38:24,479
I'll figure it out.

664
00:38:24,889 --> 00:38:25,339
Thank you.

665
00:38:25,619 --> 00:38:26,859
Thank you for your service.

666
00:38:27,093 --> 00:38:30,996
Cliff: But yeah, I think especially
if like us, you have some form of a

667
00:38:30,996 --> 00:38:35,476
relationship viscerally to this music and
the location that it comes from and all

668
00:38:35,476 --> 00:38:39,596
this stuff, that's something to pull on
and a thread to pay attention to here.

669
00:38:39,946 --> 00:38:43,345
If it isn't a part of your
cultural history, okay, cool.

670
00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:44,300
That's fine.

671
00:38:44,330 --> 00:38:48,830
You won't feel the same thing by
default, but just like every other

672
00:38:48,860 --> 00:38:53,620
single record we cover, there are
entry points that you can go in

673
00:38:53,620 --> 00:38:58,780
through and you at the very least will
accumulate appreciation as you go along.

674
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,305
But more than likely, you're going to
find If not, that you like this record

675
00:39:03,305 --> 00:39:08,155
in particular, which we highly recommend,
you'll find that you like some offshoot,

676
00:39:08,556 --> 00:39:13,088
something in the 3 6 Memphis sphere,
you're going to attach yourself to, and

677
00:39:13,088 --> 00:39:15,438
you're going to find a new, uh, love for.

678
00:39:15,778 --> 00:39:18,811
Probably an area of hip hop you don't pay
attention to, because they don't talk all

679
00:39:18,811 --> 00:39:21,545
fast and glitchy like they do these days.

680
00:39:21,679 --> 00:39:23,770
Kyle: So I guess let's get
into the DNA of it a little.

681
00:39:23,815 --> 00:39:24,295
Cliff: Please.

682
00:39:24,308 --> 00:39:26,744
Kyle: we've already touched
on Project Pat Flow.

683
00:39:26,836 --> 00:39:29,040
I think breaking down
what that is a little bit.

684
00:39:29,099 --> 00:39:30,569
You'll hear it immediately.

685
00:39:31,917 --> 00:39:40,970
But it's all the things like, you know,
Pat would say that's like one of 15 flows.

686
00:39:40,970 --> 00:39:45,951
But, Having had it so ingrained, it
was like hard to find reference points

687
00:39:46,031 --> 00:39:49,869
for it that, you know, it would be
cool if it were like this other thing.

688
00:39:49,889 --> 00:39:52,266
And like, I was thinking about two things.

689
00:39:52,337 --> 00:39:56,361
The only other artists that I can think of
that uses their voice like an instrument

690
00:39:56,361 --> 00:40:02,362
in that way, and it not feel like spoken
word or beat poetry bullshit is Tom Waits.

691
00:40:02,540 --> 00:40:03,130
Cliff: Oh, shit.

692
00:40:04,190 --> 00:40:07,201
Kyle: intonation and character of a voice.

693
00:40:07,263 --> 00:40:09,499
it allows them to inhabit a truth.

694
00:40:09,573 --> 00:40:13,186
and then I also thought about
Fela, talking and toasting

695
00:40:13,202 --> 00:40:15,592
and that sort of style.

696
00:40:15,653 --> 00:40:18,543
that was so, so, so grounded in truth.

697
00:40:18,589 --> 00:40:23,538
And you'll hear Pat talk about how
it was easy to come up with it.

698
00:40:23,545 --> 00:40:25,625
And it made me think again about Atlanta.

699
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,960
You know, the, the concept of like
people who are trying to rap, people

700
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,220
who are trying to get into it versus
like people that are like, Oh, I can

701
00:40:32,220 --> 00:40:33,790
do this and make money doing this.

702
00:40:33,790 --> 00:40:36,590
And Pat is definitely in the latter
category and he just happened

703
00:40:36,590 --> 00:40:39,660
to be smart and talented at it.

704
00:40:39,706 --> 00:40:43,056
But I think the thing that you'll notice
about Pat versus other people in the

705
00:40:43,056 --> 00:40:47,643
Hypnotized camp, Juicy J, DJ Paul, Lord
Infamous, Crunchy Black, Gangsta Boo,

706
00:40:47,754 --> 00:40:52,474
Somebody said, while 3Six's raps often
felt like supernatural hyperbole, and

707
00:40:52,474 --> 00:40:58,354
you mentioned Horrorcore they're telling
stories around murder and, satanic rites

708
00:40:58,354 --> 00:41:00,894
and sort of like, shock value shit.

709
00:41:01,314 --> 00:41:02,404
There's none of that with Pat.

710
00:41:02,444 --> 00:41:06,214
It's very like, I went and did,
you know, there's the story.

711
00:41:06,779 --> 00:41:10,120
In aggravated robbery about
Fred, it's all like that.

712
00:41:10,126 --> 00:41:13,260
or in the interlude telling the story
about the chick that got arrested for

713
00:41:13,260 --> 00:41:15,390
boosting checks, it's just all real life.

714
00:41:15,390 --> 00:41:17,631
They said Pat was always
grounded in reality and harsh

715
00:41:17,631 --> 00:41:18,841
truths about the streets.

716
00:41:19,084 --> 00:41:22,611
And that's not to say that you should
feel some type of way about it.

717
00:41:23,261 --> 00:41:28,397
It shouldn't be urban horror porn,
nor should you glamorize it, like

718
00:41:28,557 --> 00:41:31,347
suburban parents were so afraid
of their kids doing for so long.

719
00:41:31,383 --> 00:41:34,786
But it just is what it is you know,
point out the window it's life out

720
00:41:34,786 --> 00:41:37,913
there So there's that and then the
two other things that I would point

721
00:41:37,913 --> 00:41:40,731
out are you mentioned crazy samples?

722
00:41:40,731 --> 00:41:43,681
Like there's crazy musical samples,
but there's so many film samples.

723
00:41:43,681 --> 00:41:48,383
There's so many more film samples Not just
of dialogue, you know, which like punk

724
00:41:48,393 --> 00:41:52,666
bands we loved growing up did that I think
about like how I think Norma Jean started

725
00:41:52,666 --> 00:41:57,387
with the network sample when they would
play live So there's that sort of shit

726
00:41:57,387 --> 00:42:02,742
layered in, but then it's very clear that
they just had stuff on at the studio and

727
00:42:02,742 --> 00:42:06,042
they had their own studio so they could
just like vibe all day and all night.

728
00:42:06,602 --> 00:42:07,882
And it's just like, Oh, that's dope.

729
00:42:07,882 --> 00:42:08,792
Let's put that in there.

730
00:42:08,822 --> 00:42:10,532
There's such an obvious error of that.

731
00:42:11,022 --> 00:42:15,649
So you have, An interpolation of the
score from Blood In Blood Out, like

732
00:42:15,649 --> 00:42:18,699
a deep cut, really shitty JLB movie.

733
00:42:19,329 --> 00:42:20,789
You have that in So High.

734
00:42:21,387 --> 00:42:24,787
the sort of like weird Latin
rhythm is from Blood In Blood Out.

735
00:42:24,987 --> 00:42:28,407
You have Carlito's Way
and Aggravated Robbery.

736
00:42:28,777 --> 00:42:32,427
You have Scarface in a lot of
Three 6 songs, but in Ski Mask.

737
00:42:33,057 --> 00:42:36,097
You have The Omen, which is like crazy.

738
00:42:36,097 --> 00:42:38,197
These guys are sitting around Stone
watching a show like The Omen.

739
00:42:38,545 --> 00:42:39,225
I would never.

740
00:42:39,785 --> 00:42:43,635
Uh, you have the Omen, the weird, is the
weird choir thing in We Ain't Scared, Ho.

741
00:42:43,734 --> 00:42:46,754
You have Roman Polanski's The
Night Gate with Johnny Depp,

742
00:42:46,910 --> 00:42:48,110
two great folks to invoke.

743
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,030
Cliff: You can get from around here, bud.

744
00:42:51,230 --> 00:42:52,410
Kyle: you can get from around here.

745
00:42:52,450 --> 00:42:52,720
Yeah.

746
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:55,700
So in, in, if you ain't from
my hood, you have Wes Craven's

747
00:42:55,710 --> 00:42:57,630
New Nightmare in Break the Law.

748
00:42:58,130 --> 00:43:03,260
And then you have the interesting
string line in Cheese and Dope is

749
00:43:03,260 --> 00:43:07,427
from The Perfect Storm, the George
Clooney Nor'easter boating movie.

750
00:43:07,521 --> 00:43:12,211
which is like so, so of its time and
interesting, but like, I would say all of

751
00:43:12,211 --> 00:43:16,814
that adds up to just like a smartness, a
curiosity, they're just chasing after a

752
00:43:16,814 --> 00:43:18,534
bunch of stuff and they're not one note.

753
00:43:18,641 --> 00:43:21,911
and I think that is reflected in some
of the diversity of the sounds that

754
00:43:21,911 --> 00:43:24,001
you hear on this palette of beats.

755
00:43:24,041 --> 00:43:27,126
And then the last thing I would say is,
maybe this was a thing that surprised me

756
00:43:27,126 --> 00:43:29,826
as well, how self referential the shit is.

757
00:43:30,821 --> 00:43:36,561
You know, even within a song, so they
do a lot of like North Memphis or like

758
00:43:36,561 --> 00:43:40,484
North, North, across all their shit, like,
you know, Sonic branding, almost like

759
00:43:40,484 --> 00:43:45,752
a producer tag, before their collective
and then in don't save her, you know,

760
00:43:45,752 --> 00:43:48,472
it's maybe a chicken and egg situation,
but the ain't nothing going on, but

761
00:43:48,472 --> 00:43:50,722
the money and the power is in the hook.

762
00:43:50,742 --> 00:43:53,128
It's sampled in the hook, but
then it's Part of Crunchy Black's

763
00:43:53,138 --> 00:43:56,962
verse and like maybe that was
from an earlier thing and reused.

764
00:43:56,962 --> 00:44:00,726
Maybe not So it's either like Referenced
and pulled into another thing or

765
00:44:00,736 --> 00:44:04,236
they've taken the vocals and they've
chopped it into a beat element Which

766
00:44:04,246 --> 00:44:05,896
in and of itself is really interesting.

767
00:44:05,896 --> 00:44:11,486
So you have that and the break the law we
ain't playing or you had the like so hot

768
00:44:11,506 --> 00:44:17,459
so so so hot and That's inventive, you
know, like using your own voice sampling.

769
00:44:17,459 --> 00:44:21,009
That means they were like really
In the studio fucking around until

770
00:44:21,009 --> 00:44:24,170
they came up with new stuff and
that's really compelling to me

771
00:44:24,315 --> 00:44:29,085
Cliff: At the risk of putting an overly
fine point on it, in case someone's

772
00:44:29,085 --> 00:44:32,975
having trouble locking into the kind
of cadence and flow that we're talking

773
00:44:32,975 --> 00:44:39,505
about, With project pat like I did
like your sample in your example.

774
00:44:39,535 --> 00:44:40,125
It was good.

775
00:44:40,405 --> 00:44:46,254
But like basically the on the kind
of fourth beat More times than not,

776
00:44:46,254 --> 00:44:50,314
there's just one long, like, the
equivalent of like a quarter note.

777
00:44:51,254 --> 00:44:57,840
at the end of bars, he slows it down and
drags it out and does a little something

778
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:02,350
different with the rhythm earlier
on in all of those, you know, bars.

779
00:45:02,890 --> 00:45:09,343
And I think, again, I, uh, it, it
almost feels, Like, morally corrupt to

780
00:45:09,353 --> 00:45:11,443
be verbalizing things like this, but

781
00:45:11,743 --> 00:45:15,693
Kyle: You use that analogy one time with
frank ocean turning the lights on in

782
00:45:15,693 --> 00:45:19,908
space mountain It's a little it's a
little bit of that but I don't know.

783
00:45:20,888 --> 00:45:24,268
This, This, episode could easily
be 60 minutes of that's dope.

784
00:45:24,448 --> 00:45:25,008
That's dope.

785
00:45:25,088 --> 00:45:26,538
Oh, and that dope that's dope.

786
00:45:26,808 --> 00:45:28,478
So like, it's nice to think.

787
00:45:28,868 --> 00:45:32,738
I also, I don't know if you
feel this way, but I felt kind

788
00:45:32,738 --> 00:45:34,378
of bummed that there was not.

789
00:45:34,378 --> 00:45:38,008
Hardly any like really critical
analysis of this stuff.

790
00:45:38,018 --> 00:45:41,948
You know, I feel like not a
lot has really done justice to

791
00:45:42,148 --> 00:45:47,358
everyone notices the influence, but
nobody's trying to get how and why.

792
00:45:47,853 --> 00:45:50,040
so think we're both curious about that.

793
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,590
And let's just say it's like, it's all
homage to how great we think this shit is.

794
00:45:54,905 --> 00:45:55,195
Cliff: Yeah.

795
00:45:55,195 --> 00:45:55,625
For sure.

796
00:45:55,846 --> 00:46:01,410
even trying to draw out the, the rhythm
of his cadence, like two things are worth,

797
00:46:01,490 --> 00:46:05,070
or I think are worth drawing out from that
relative to what you were just saying.

798
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,457
And like the lack of just like critical.

799
00:46:08,152 --> 00:46:10,372
Praise or appreciation
for some of this stuff.

800
00:46:10,662 --> 00:46:11,262
So, okay.

801
00:46:11,282 --> 00:46:15,642
So one, uh, the reason it's worth like
digging into the cadence, even if you

802
00:46:15,642 --> 00:46:19,892
don't immediately get it, or if you're
sort of like, I don't give a shit about

803
00:46:19,892 --> 00:46:21,242
what you're talking about right now.

804
00:46:21,572 --> 00:46:22,012
Okay.

805
00:46:22,012 --> 00:46:26,452
But okay, let's, let's draw a contrast
with even something you just said,

806
00:46:26,472 --> 00:46:33,112
Kyle, which is like the just raw amount
of critical praise or review of this

807
00:46:33,112 --> 00:46:37,552
like era of music is in specifically
from Memphis on the other hand.

808
00:46:38,257 --> 00:46:39,647
You mentioned Outkast.

809
00:46:39,837 --> 00:46:45,803
the other side of what was evolving out
of Southern hip hop, uh, which was, you

810
00:46:45,825 --> 00:46:51,967
In some forms, like a mild precursor
to OutKast, OutKast took a different

811
00:46:51,987 --> 00:46:57,387
approach, I mean, even just between
Big Boi and Dre they took different

812
00:46:57,647 --> 00:47:03,987
cadence approaches to how they rapped,
and like, those things became traceable

813
00:47:04,167 --> 00:47:09,977
and distinguished in different branches
of southern hip hop, and like, so much,

814
00:47:10,067 --> 00:47:14,662
I mean, Constant theme of our podcast
here is like the way that you can see

815
00:47:14,662 --> 00:47:18,932
outcasts and everything, basically, um,
and like all that's still true and there's

816
00:47:18,932 --> 00:47:24,792
nothing to, to take from that other
than to say there are at the same time,

817
00:47:25,052 --> 00:47:30,412
other supportive cultural moments that
were taking off that may not have ever,

818
00:47:30,422 --> 00:47:34,922
you know, surfaced in your life because
three, six never eventually made fucking.

819
00:47:34,922 --> 00:47:35,522
Hey, y'all.

820
00:47:35,952 --> 00:47:39,802
So like, it didn't like come
up for pop culture air where

821
00:47:40,092 --> 00:47:41,582
Kyle: That's never won an Oscar though.

822
00:47:44,127 --> 00:47:49,746
Cliff: Touche, but like whether it's the
cadence of the delivery or whether it's

823
00:47:49,746 --> 00:47:53,996
just like, you'll clearly be able to hear
the difference in the production in what

824
00:47:53,996 --> 00:47:57,886
we just talked about in terms of where
samples are coming from, how things are

825
00:47:57,886 --> 00:47:59,516
sampled, how the production is done.

826
00:47:59,796 --> 00:48:02,366
We've talked about the beats
and how they're all approached.

827
00:48:02,696 --> 00:48:04,506
Like every single one of those things.

828
00:48:04,821 --> 00:48:08,821
Fundamentally different in a slightly
different branch of southern hip hop and

829
00:48:08,821 --> 00:48:14,141
created like multiple genres of music
that we'd all come to love and appreciate.

830
00:48:14,611 --> 00:48:19,361
So in one sense, even just if this
didn't catch your radar, I think

831
00:48:19,391 --> 00:48:23,871
understanding its proximity to something
else important and recognizing as well

832
00:48:23,891 --> 00:48:29,181
that like, Just the way that you could
recognize a three sacks verse now when

833
00:48:29,181 --> 00:48:33,571
he decides to appear or when he used
to decide to appear on records, like

834
00:48:33,601 --> 00:48:38,011
you can recognize project Pat in the
same way, even if you don't know how

835
00:48:38,011 --> 00:48:40,151
to put your name or that name to it.

836
00:48:40,631 --> 00:48:41,181
And I think.

837
00:48:41,826 --> 00:48:46,798
Like one immediate cool example, you
know, hip hop, you can always do the sort

838
00:48:46,798 --> 00:48:51,814
of like this song  samples or is sampled
by, and you can chase things that way.

839
00:48:52,150 --> 00:48:56,068
but like one thing that's fun here
is like kind of influence chasing.

840
00:48:56,458 --> 00:48:57,098
So.

841
00:48:57,098 --> 00:49:02,228
One good example of Megan Thee Stallion's
Southside Forever Freestyle from 2021.

842
00:49:02,228 --> 00:49:05,648
Okay, literally, like we got,
we got to drop this in like

843
00:49:05,688 --> 00:49:07,918
at one minute and 43 seconds.

844
00:49:07,928 --> 00:49:12,378
She does four bars of cadence
and like it is Project Pat.

845
00:49:12,758 --> 00:49:16,888
And like once you just have that
baseline appreciation for what

846
00:49:16,898 --> 00:49:20,568
Pat was doing with his cadence
and why it became recognizable.

847
00:49:20,818 --> 00:49:24,226
It becomes like really
cool to see it surfaced.

848
00:49:24,273 --> 00:49:27,663
as homage in modern hip hop.

849
00:49:27,703 --> 00:49:31,153
Like, this shit is still important
to important people who are

850
00:49:31,153 --> 00:49:32,499
doing cool things in music.

851
00:49:32,535 --> 00:49:37,003
Kyle: I definitely want to get back to the
influence bit that's really the big thing.

852
00:49:37,003 --> 00:49:39,823
I think now, doubling down
on a couple of your points.

853
00:49:39,833 --> 00:49:45,883
One, I would say, if you are very pro
outcast, very neutral or whatever this,

854
00:49:46,170 --> 00:49:52,400
I'm not a Southern studies or God forbid
an African American studies major,

855
00:49:52,410 --> 00:49:56,575
but if I were, I might say something
like, You know, if you're looking at

856
00:49:56,985 --> 00:50:02,955
southern futures or whatever, outcasts
is Afrofuturist, pro topian, and this is

857
00:50:02,955 --> 00:50:08,243
more dystopian or real, but they all exist
in the same sort of cinematic universe.

858
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:10,430
and they, they really do belong together.

859
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,958
And there's a little nugget
that I think threads those two

860
00:50:13,958 --> 00:50:15,528
sides of the yin yang together.

861
00:50:16,018 --> 00:50:16,748
And.

862
00:50:17,088 --> 00:50:21,748
It's how like connected all the
Southern subcultures were Memphis,

863
00:50:21,818 --> 00:50:27,058
Houston, Alabama, Mississippi,
New Orleans, and Atlanta, and then

864
00:50:27,068 --> 00:50:28,648
Southern and Northern Florida.

865
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:33,140
the very first thing that you hear
on this record is a sample of a

866
00:50:33,140 --> 00:50:36,870
New Orleans bounce record from the
early nineties on chicken head.

867
00:50:36,910 --> 00:50:39,810
The all right, all right, all right,
all right, all right, all right.

868
00:50:39,879 --> 00:50:43,672
Is a sample from another culture, and
it would be very easy knowing like the

869
00:50:43,672 --> 00:50:48,396
insularity of a lot of music scenes
to be like, that's not our turf.

870
00:50:48,404 --> 00:50:52,746
We should only do stuff from Memphis,
but that is really the nature

871
00:50:52,746 --> 00:50:54,420
of the like Southern rap gumbo.

872
00:50:54,421 --> 00:50:55,725
It could come from everywhere.

873
00:50:55,750 --> 00:50:59,725
The other thing that I will say is we
keep talking about the project Pat flow,

874
00:50:59,727 --> 00:51:02,082
and I don't want to run the risk of.

875
00:51:02,124 --> 00:51:04,404
People thinking it's a
one trick pony thing.

876
00:51:04,744 --> 00:51:06,114
That's what he does all the time.

877
00:51:06,114 --> 00:51:07,424
Or it's the only thing that he can do.

878
00:51:07,447 --> 00:51:09,220
thinking about what to
focus on or isolate.

879
00:51:09,220 --> 00:51:14,060
I would listen for the moments he switches
up into something else idiosyncratic and

880
00:51:14,060 --> 00:51:18,302
a couple of examples of that that really
stand out to me are on so high, the sort

881
00:51:18,302 --> 00:51:22,345
of Latin beat where he chooses to follow
the rhythm and the melody the whole time.

882
00:51:22,345 --> 00:51:26,964
And it's like one of the first really
like weird beats, and then on ski mask,

883
00:51:26,984 --> 00:51:32,601
it's got this Weird rhythm in the chorus
where it's a bunch of kick You know,

884
00:51:32,601 --> 00:51:33,901
there's like three quarters of the place.

885
00:51:33,901 --> 00:51:38,271
You feel like it should be a snare
It's all kicks and he they're all like

886
00:51:38,271 --> 00:51:43,461
speed bumps that he goes over With his
cadence and it reminded me of misty

887
00:51:43,461 --> 00:51:48,692
mountain hop by zeppelin Where it's a
fucked up rhythm The John Paul Jones

888
00:51:48,692 --> 00:51:51,875
brought to the group and I remember
the story of Bonham being like, I

889
00:51:51,875 --> 00:51:53,835
have no idea how to play over that.

890
00:51:53,845 --> 00:52:00,445
So I'm just going to play in four and the
drums and plant go in four over this weird

891
00:52:00,465 --> 00:52:02,185
and it creates this weird swirly thing.

892
00:52:02,195 --> 00:52:05,766
And there's a bit of that, like,
I don't know what to do with this

893
00:52:05,766 --> 00:52:07,606
weird shit that you did juicy.

894
00:52:07,706 --> 00:52:11,158
So I'm just going to drive straight
over the speed bumps and it works.

895
00:52:11,198 --> 00:52:12,048
It's a different thing.

896
00:52:12,068 --> 00:52:13,708
There's like, there's tension.

897
00:52:14,118 --> 00:52:15,118
Between those two things.

898
00:52:15,118 --> 00:52:15,928
And it's really cool.

899
00:52:15,928 --> 00:52:18,988
And if you, and if none of that does
it for you, then the last thing I

900
00:52:18,988 --> 00:52:24,508
would say to look for amidst the
menacing atmosphere is sense of humor.

901
00:52:24,751 --> 00:52:27,572
There's funny shit all over
this record in the same way.

902
00:52:27,572 --> 00:52:31,043
The show Atlanta is very funny,
darkly funny, still billed

903
00:52:31,043 --> 00:52:32,823
as a comedy because whatever.

904
00:52:33,198 --> 00:52:34,158
we'll start with chicken head.

905
00:52:34,258 --> 00:52:35,348
That sounds funny as shit.

906
00:52:35,479 --> 00:52:38,876
second verse where Pat and LeChak go
back and forth and they're drawing

907
00:52:38,876 --> 00:52:41,198
at each other is funny and universal.

908
00:52:41,238 --> 00:52:44,088
And if you don't get why it's
funny, go get on Tik and search

909
00:52:44,088 --> 00:52:47,452
for the chicken head audio and
watch the thing where the boyfriend

910
00:52:47,452 --> 00:52:49,375
and girlfriend will do the verse.

911
00:52:49,425 --> 00:52:53,109
And then they'll switch outfits when
it's time for the other one to talk.

912
00:52:53,109 --> 00:52:54,657
It's like people inherently get.

913
00:52:54,657 --> 00:52:56,831
The comedy, the real human comedy in it.

914
00:52:56,831 --> 00:52:59,864
the one that always gets me is
crunchy black's verse and ski mask.

915
00:52:59,864 --> 00:53:04,768
There's just something so again, guy in a
parking lot, funny as fuck about the way

916
00:53:04,768 --> 00:53:07,766
that he talks about committing a robbery.

917
00:53:07,787 --> 00:53:09,834
That's just like really,
really works for me.

918
00:53:09,885 --> 00:53:12,595
And then there's comedy in
the juxtaposition of Pat's.

919
00:53:12,929 --> 00:53:17,031
Some of his really gritty lyrics and then
the sound of I remember being a teenager

920
00:53:17,031 --> 00:53:22,610
and hearing a beat like life we live That
just sounded like weird smooth jazz type

921
00:53:22,610 --> 00:53:27,257
stuff and I didn't learn till much later
about life we live which was kind of the

922
00:53:27,257 --> 00:53:30,688
song one of the songs that like Brought
this record back into orbit in the tiktok

923
00:53:30,718 --> 00:53:35,294
era It samples, it really versions more
than anything, a Curtis Mayfield song

924
00:53:35,294 --> 00:53:37,550
from his final album, came out in 96.

925
00:53:37,570 --> 00:53:39,510
So it would have been like
still very of this era.

926
00:53:39,565 --> 00:53:43,802
And it was Curtis's only album
after he was paralyzed in 1990.

927
00:53:43,802 --> 00:53:48,030
And he recorded the vocals for the
song, pretty much line by line punching

928
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:50,883
in, lying on his back because he
was paralyzed from the neck down.

929
00:53:50,937 --> 00:53:54,584
And the hook of that song is the
life we live is oh, so beautiful.

930
00:53:54,584 --> 00:53:58,895
And Pat takes that song and does it in
earnest is talking about like what you

931
00:53:58,895 --> 00:54:02,128
said about the interview earlier he's
talking about how he's fucked up in his

932
00:54:02,128 --> 00:54:06,296
life, but he doesn't regret it and Like
life is still beautiful because I'm

933
00:54:06,296 --> 00:54:09,780
still here to see it in spite of all
the things that I've done And I think I

934
00:54:09,780 --> 00:54:12,980
just had to be much older and go through
much more shit It was just one of those

935
00:54:12,980 --> 00:54:17,670
things that it was funny in the way that
like I didn't get why Barry White Or

936
00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:21,381
Marvin Gaye was sexy until I got older
And there's just something lived in

937
00:54:21,391 --> 00:54:23,892
about it that you can feel in your bones.

938
00:54:24,224 --> 00:54:25,482
Cliff: If I may, go

939
00:54:25,524 --> 00:54:26,044
Kyle: You may.

940
00:54:27,017 --> 00:54:31,747
Cliff: If I can just click a little
bit further though in to chicken head,

941
00:54:31,997 --> 00:54:37,716
even as an example for more things to
focus on and sort of, Be spread out

942
00:54:37,726 --> 00:54:41,346
by, so to speak, uh, and look at all
the different things that it touched

943
00:54:41,346 --> 00:54:45,398
and was influenced by, you know, we've
already mentioned so far, like I said,

944
00:54:45,398 --> 00:54:47,198
I was pretty blown away by the samples.

945
00:54:47,498 --> 00:54:53,493
You listed an incredible list of movies
off the top to begin with, but even the,

946
00:54:53,737 --> 00:55:00,753
I don't know if, if it's the, 2001 ness
of this record or some other aspect of it

947
00:55:01,248 --> 00:55:02,688
Kyle: Pre 911, by the way.

948
00:55:03,685 --> 00:55:08,366
Cliff: but chasing the samples even just
on chicken head is Endlessly fascinating

949
00:55:08,366 --> 00:55:12,228
to me, so on one hand you've got A
good portion of the rhythm and some

950
00:55:12,228 --> 00:55:16,878
bass comes from a too short song in 88
called Cusswords, which is just, once

951
00:55:16,878 --> 00:55:18,738
again, like I'm just being straight.

952
00:55:18,978 --> 00:55:22,448
Uh, I don't mean this in any sort
of dismissive or disrespectful way.

953
00:55:22,688 --> 00:55:23,748
It was a funny song.

954
00:55:23,948 --> 00:55:24,678
It's funny.

955
00:55:24,798 --> 00:55:32,199
some of this rap is funny from some of
these particular times and like Listening

956
00:55:32,479 --> 00:55:35,639
to the way that we used to talk about
sexually explicit things versus the

957
00:55:35,639 --> 00:55:41,300
way that we do now, just like really
gives me a tickle in the funniest ways.

958
00:55:41,670 --> 00:55:42,020
Um,

959
00:55:43,300 --> 00:55:45,630
Kyle: You would have been uncomfortable
about that in an older episode.

960
00:55:47,297 --> 00:55:49,737
Cliff: and then you mentioned, all
right, the vocals that are right at the

961
00:55:49,737 --> 00:55:55,100
beginning, the like, all right, sample,
was taken from a song called Bitches

962
00:55:55,100 --> 00:55:58,070
Reply by DJ Jimmy from New Orleans.

963
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:03,400
That song itself was a response
to MCTT Tuckers, Where They At?

964
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:11,850
And like, once again, I, I just, as I went
down this, as I descended this ladder into

965
00:56:12,060 --> 00:56:19,330
90s and 80s rap, Possibly hell, all of the
lyrics are hilarious to me, all the way

966
00:56:19,495 --> 00:56:20,875
Kyle: It's party records, right?

967
00:56:21,245 --> 00:56:22,305
It's culture shit.

968
00:56:22,305 --> 00:56:22,695
Yeah.

969
00:56:22,899 --> 00:56:26,622
Cliff: but just like, I am a
capital S serious music person

970
00:56:26,672 --> 00:56:27,812
a lot of the time, right?

971
00:56:27,812 --> 00:56:32,042
Like, I like serious music,
I like weird, artsy stuff.

972
00:56:32,412 --> 00:56:33,832
So, to have a different

973
00:56:34,277 --> 00:56:34,547
Kyle: Yeah,

974
00:56:34,957 --> 00:56:38,257
Guys with nice guitar cases that
went to Berkeley with two E's.

975
00:56:38,437 --> 00:56:43,897
Cliff: and just like, if I'm being
honest with myself, I can have like

976
00:56:43,897 --> 00:56:46,837
an elitist streak about stuff, like
dude, if you're not going to take this

977
00:56:46,837 --> 00:56:51,847
seriously, I don't want to fuck with
it, and like, so I have a hard time, and

978
00:56:51,847 --> 00:56:58,707
for whatever reason, the like, portal
of Project Pat and 3 6 takes me places

979
00:56:58,717 --> 00:57:02,747
where I can enjoy and appreciate this in
a different way, I don't have to think

980
00:57:02,747 --> 00:57:06,118
it's incredible or interesting or serious.

981
00:57:06,469 --> 00:57:10,399
but, but something different about
it, uh, gave me a different type of

982
00:57:10,449 --> 00:57:14,729
joy in chasing music that I don't
necessarily automatically get with

983
00:57:14,729 --> 00:57:16,339
hip hop just cause they sample stuff.

984
00:57:16,799 --> 00:57:19,099
And so I loved doing that.

985
00:57:19,279 --> 00:57:22,719
I loved being surprised by the way
the production has changed over the

986
00:57:22,719 --> 00:57:24,979
years from that like string of samples.

987
00:57:25,249 --> 00:57:28,879
But then on the other hand A couple
of things, or one thing you mentioned

988
00:57:28,879 --> 00:57:33,369
earlier as well, like the tracks that
I just mentioned also helped laid

989
00:57:33,369 --> 00:57:37,629
the foundation for like bounce music
coming out of New Orleans, right?

990
00:57:37,659 --> 00:57:42,182
And so, you know, some, I think
examples of that not, not only

991
00:57:42,262 --> 00:57:44,112
LaChatte but like Hot Boys.

992
00:57:44,142 --> 00:57:48,792
And then I hadn't really thought about
it this way, but Uh, I saw, uh, Gasoline

993
00:57:48,802 --> 00:57:54,582
Dreams be referred to as, like, a sort
of descendant of that bounce, which I

994
00:57:54,602 --> 00:57:56,592
thought was cool to, like, okay, now we've

995
00:57:56,902 --> 00:57:58,922
Kyle: Jimi Hendrix made a bounce song.

996
00:57:59,837 --> 00:58:01,427
Cliff: Yeah and then

997
00:58:01,787 --> 00:58:06,007
Kyle: Also, did you know that I
only know this because I saw on the

998
00:58:06,007 --> 00:58:10,767
YouTube video of that DJ Jimmy song
the B side of that record features

999
00:58:10,827 --> 00:58:13,707
an early juvenile in the early 90s.

1000
00:58:13,977 --> 00:58:15,917
So like the lineage is kind of all there.

1001
00:58:15,927 --> 00:58:20,456
It's, it's like people pulling each other
up and apprenticing each other and stuff.

1002
00:58:20,470 --> 00:58:25,027
Cliff: yeah, and the, let's see, the
like, it sounds like bells or xylophone,

1003
00:58:25,037 --> 00:58:28,977
the kind of instrumentals that's on
Chickenhead that comes from Biz's Reply

1004
00:58:29,327 --> 00:58:35,007
is itself a sample taken from a song
called Drag Rap by the Showboys who was,

1005
00:58:35,027 --> 00:58:37,497
uh, Queens rap group from the eighties.

1006
00:58:37,828 --> 00:58:42,658
I mean, you can really ride these
songs all the way down to like

1007
00:58:42,658 --> 00:58:44,298
some of the beginnings of hip hop.

1008
00:58:44,929 --> 00:58:50,389
and to your point though, like we just,
even just on one song, on the biggest song

1009
00:58:50,389 --> 00:58:55,299
on this record, chasing just one thread,
we've already ended up back in Queens,

1010
00:58:55,499 --> 00:59:00,419
which is not necessarily what you would
have expected from this era of hip hop.

1011
00:59:00,609 --> 00:59:07,265
And to your point, It is culturally
specific and local but it was actively

1012
00:59:07,345 --> 00:59:11,445
absorbing things from anywhere
else that hip hop was taken off.

1013
00:59:11,825 --> 00:59:13,800
And like, it's just, To
me, it's always cool.

1014
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:17,910
If you hold up a microscope to hip hop,
you just, you find a whole lot of stuff

1015
00:59:17,910 --> 00:59:21,300
you didn't expect to be in the little
Petri dish that you're looking at.

1016
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:21,530
And I

1017
00:59:21,605 --> 00:59:25,545
Kyle: There are a few genres that can
make you learn as much as quickly, and

1018
00:59:25,545 --> 00:59:26,745
that's one of the great things about it.

1019
00:59:26,745 --> 00:59:31,855
Just the speed of inspiration to two
things that got me really excited.

1020
00:59:31,855 --> 00:59:35,887
Just then one, there's that Bauer
guy that I guess his claim to

1021
00:59:35,887 --> 00:59:39,730
fame is the Harlem Shake beat,
but he on Tick Tock deconstructs

1022
00:59:39,750 --> 00:59:41,647
samples of in a really good way.

1023
00:59:41,647 --> 00:59:45,207
Like he's worth a follow if you're
into sample stuff at all, but he

1024
00:59:45,207 --> 00:59:49,670
always recommends doing the, what
else use the sample of a drum break.

1025
00:59:49,670 --> 00:59:54,520
The interesting thing about drag rap
is juicy has used some portion of

1026
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,477
drag rap, easily 20 times in 25 years.

1027
00:59:57,557 --> 00:59:58,457
It's all over it.

1028
00:59:58,457 --> 01:00:01,600
So it's like more of
that self sonic imprint.

1029
01:00:01,620 --> 01:00:05,252
It's a building block he has put
a bunch, bunch, bunch of places.

1030
01:00:05,378 --> 01:00:06,588
I don't remember what the other thing was.

1031
01:00:06,596 --> 01:00:07,120
Too excited.

1032
01:00:08,627 --> 01:00:12,037
Cliff: I can only hope to repay a
small amount of the excitement that you

1033
01:00:12,037 --> 01:00:16,567
managed to give me literally as just a
kid with subwoofers about this record.

1034
01:00:16,597 --> 01:00:17,967
I will just never get over it.

1035
01:00:18,217 --> 01:00:21,367
I'm just, I'm endlessly
personally delighted that we're

1036
01:00:21,367 --> 01:00:22,747
finally talking about this one.

1037
01:00:23,248 --> 01:00:24,538
So what else?

1038
01:00:24,563 --> 01:00:29,473
Is worth paying close attention to when
you listen to this music outside of,

1039
01:00:29,473 --> 01:00:33,543
we've sort of talked about flow and
cadence, we've talked a little bit about

1040
01:00:33,633 --> 01:00:39,783
talked a lot about samples and, uh,
different regional hip hop influences

1041
01:00:39,783 --> 01:00:44,828
and things like that, but maybe, from the
production angles, anything stand out to

1042
01:00:44,828 --> 01:00:47,908
you that we haven't talked about so far
that's worth paying close attention to?

1043
01:00:47,938 --> 01:00:50,368
Kyle: Probably the last two things,
if none of the other things have

1044
01:00:50,378 --> 01:00:55,309
stuck to your ribs yet, are,
they're both songcraft things.

1045
01:00:55,376 --> 01:00:57,896
One is that these songs have hooks.

1046
01:00:58,436 --> 01:00:59,586
They are very memorable.

1047
01:01:00,076 --> 01:01:01,486
Chickenhead's very memorable.

1048
01:01:01,856 --> 01:01:03,456
Don't Save Her is very memorable.

1049
01:01:03,456 --> 01:01:05,296
If you ain't from my
hood, it's very memorable.

1050
01:01:05,425 --> 01:01:11,081
certainly the ones where Naman Lumpkin
sings like Life We Live and Gorilla Pimp.

1051
01:01:11,081 --> 01:01:11,960
Very memorable.

1052
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:16,677
Short, simple, no real
complexity, not too many bars.

1053
01:01:16,727 --> 01:01:18,526
plain spoken, very punchy.

1054
01:01:18,627 --> 01:01:21,600
I mean, hell, I feel like one of
the, one of the longer, more complex

1055
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:22,980
hooks is like Cheese and Dope.

1056
01:01:23,490 --> 01:01:27,680
Because it's got four lines to it
and you maybe sometimes I forget the

1057
01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:30,667
sequence of them What you need bro?

1058
01:01:30,734 --> 01:01:35,984
But there are hooks it's really if you
can get past the grit of it, it's really

1059
01:01:35,984 --> 01:01:40,274
poppy They have great pop sensibilities,
which feels like an insane thing

1060
01:01:40,274 --> 01:01:44,808
to say, but they really do And, all
credit to the musicality of these guys.

1061
01:01:44,838 --> 01:01:48,558
We're talking about like DJ, Paul
took piano lessons at age 13, Lord

1062
01:01:48,558 --> 01:01:50,588
infamous who's DJ Paul's half brother.

1063
01:01:50,608 --> 01:01:54,113
So, but you know, again, very small
community, Lord infamous learned to sing

1064
01:01:54,113 --> 01:01:57,833
and play bass and guitar by 15 and they
were making compositions like before

1065
01:01:57,833 --> 01:01:59,981
they could drive wholesale compositions.

1066
01:02:00,156 --> 01:02:03,429
So if you listen to trap shit
now, I don't want to be like, it's

1067
01:02:03,439 --> 01:02:06,114
watered down because there's a
lot of great production from like.

1068
01:02:06,186 --> 01:02:10,316
Band play, Honorable C note, certainly
the Metro Boomins of the world, like

1069
01:02:10,316 --> 01:02:15,378
there's a tremendous lineage of southern
producers now But like I would say the

1070
01:02:15,378 --> 01:02:20,288
closest lineage in terms of musical
sophistication It's probably Zaytoven

1071
01:02:20,488 --> 01:02:23,378
and Zaytoven's ability to play the piano
the way that he does if you watch Gucci

1072
01:02:23,378 --> 01:02:28,574
Mane's Tiny Desk There's a deceptive
musicality and I think you see it in So

1073
01:02:28,574 --> 01:02:31,244
like take the blueprint, the other thing
I was going to say is the blueprint of

1074
01:02:31,244 --> 01:02:33,809
the hypnotized mind sound 808 nowhere.

1075
01:02:33,809 --> 01:02:37,491
You're going to get a better trunk,
not base check 808 example, then

1076
01:02:37,491 --> 01:02:43,485
break the law when it really gets
going straight line, one tone, people

1077
01:02:43,485 --> 01:02:44,955
will hear you from down the block.

1078
01:02:45,062 --> 01:02:46,852
and I guess that's a bit of a side note.

1079
01:02:46,852 --> 01:02:50,451
Like if you've never had an experience
where you've been in a car with somebody

1080
01:02:50,499 --> 01:02:54,137
that like the base physically takes
your breath away and your sternum.

1081
01:02:54,822 --> 01:02:56,142
Ride with somebody in the car.

1082
01:02:56,262 --> 01:02:58,305
Listen in to Southern
rap or go to a sun show.

1083
01:02:58,485 --> 01:03:01,050
so you got 8 0 8 and then we mentioned
the four on the floor, high hat.

1084
01:03:01,050 --> 01:03:04,731
And then you have these
unusual synth atmospheres or

1085
01:03:04,752 --> 01:03:07,002
really melodic keyboard lines.

1086
01:03:07,062 --> 01:03:11,228
the one that I didn't know was,
and I think it's on ski mask.

1087
01:03:11,438 --> 01:03:13,178
The one that I didn't know was a sample.

1088
01:03:13,569 --> 01:03:17,470
Was a sample of late 80s Sabbath,
like, of course I didn't recognize it

1089
01:03:17,470 --> 01:03:21,605
because I stopped listening after like
Sabbath, bloody Sabbath or something.

1090
01:03:23,945 --> 01:03:30,315
Cliff: sorry, I saw today, uh, where, uh,
someone was posting a video of, uh, an M.

1091
01:03:30,315 --> 01:03:35,225
I. A. video released from about 13 years
ago, and now the ongoing meme is just to

1092
01:03:35,225 --> 01:03:40,315
pretend that she passed away after that.

1093
01:03:40,445 --> 01:03:40,805
Kyle: did.

1094
01:03:40,805 --> 01:03:42,475
We got clone MIA like

1095
01:03:42,475 --> 01:03:44,565
Gucci, but it's way

1096
01:03:44,565 --> 01:03:45,305
worse.

1097
01:03:45,465 --> 01:03:47,885
Cliff: they're just like,
R. I. P. What a good video.

1098
01:03:48,465 --> 01:03:54,175
Kyle: Honestly, honestly, I'm, I'm going
to start dropping that into episodes.

1099
01:03:54,175 --> 01:03:55,285
All right.

1100
01:03:55,285 --> 01:03:55,555
RIP MIA.

1101
01:03:55,555 --> 01:03:57,044
MIA is MIA.

1102
01:03:57,044 --> 01:03:57,540
Damn.

1103
01:03:57,540 --> 01:04:03,789
Anyway, the song was nightmare by
black Sabbath and it's like weird.

1104
01:04:03,789 --> 01:04:08,869
There's so many times where they pick
the preset on the keyboard that like when

1105
01:04:08,869 --> 01:04:10,509
I was taking piano lessons growing up.

1106
01:04:11,114 --> 01:04:14,524
And coming home to practice on my Casio
keyboard is like, whoops, get that one.

1107
01:04:14,844 --> 01:04:15,954
Like, don't ever use 42.

1108
01:04:16,214 --> 01:04:17,234
That sounds weird as shit.

1109
01:04:17,244 --> 01:04:20,048
That sounds like, the guy at
church is trying to do something

1110
01:04:20,048 --> 01:04:21,808
different and it's too different.

1111
01:04:21,838 --> 01:04:23,928
It's like the weird crystals or whatever.

1112
01:04:24,258 --> 01:04:25,368
There's so much of that.

1113
01:04:25,388 --> 01:04:27,828
It's just, there is a
fearlessness to that.

1114
01:04:27,838 --> 01:04:30,748
That's just like, I know they were
stoned enough to be like, you know what?

1115
01:04:30,768 --> 01:04:31,458
That sounds dope.

1116
01:04:31,598 --> 01:04:32,268
Let's go with it.

1117
01:04:32,818 --> 01:04:33,828
And then it just works.

1118
01:04:33,858 --> 01:04:36,734
Then they just build around weird sounds.

1119
01:04:36,874 --> 01:04:40,077
So, this would be a really
good beat tape, I think.

1120
01:04:40,197 --> 01:04:43,035
Cause you, could just kind of
live in the worlds of the beats.

1121
01:04:43,161 --> 01:04:43,501
That's it.

1122
01:04:43,541 --> 01:04:46,111
anything else for you that we
haven't covered at this point?

1123
01:04:46,180 --> 01:04:49,781
Cliff: We might as well start
attempting to point at the, 10

1124
01:04:49,791 --> 01:04:53,992
million distinct possibilities
of where to begin going next.

1125
01:04:54,061 --> 01:04:58,431
although before we do that,
maybe I'll just encourage people.

1126
01:04:58,709 --> 01:05:04,169
the exercise of the music calendar
that we talk about is, well, I mean,

1127
01:05:04,189 --> 01:05:05,719
obviously we fucking think it's cool.

1128
01:05:05,729 --> 01:05:06,199
We did it.

1129
01:05:06,509 --> 01:05:07,129
It's helpful.

1130
01:05:07,479 --> 01:05:07,849
Right.

1131
01:05:07,949 --> 01:05:11,619
But like one of the reasons we've
talked about it being cool is that.

1132
01:05:12,239 --> 01:05:17,259
Sometimes there's, there's an aspect
of listening to music that you don't

1133
01:05:17,259 --> 01:05:23,479
necessarily get access to until you
try to have a discipline about it.

1134
01:05:23,789 --> 01:05:27,129
And the discipline of listening
to a record that comes to you

1135
01:05:27,129 --> 01:05:30,669
every day, as opposed to just like
vibing your way through Spotify,

1136
01:05:30,949 --> 01:05:32,159
produces something different.

1137
01:05:32,159 --> 01:05:35,039
Like your experience is just
fundamentally different when you, when

1138
01:05:35,039 --> 01:05:36,249
you approach it a little bit differently.

1139
01:05:36,429 --> 01:05:37,219
And so similar.

1140
01:05:37,664 --> 01:05:44,757
To that sort of idea of thing for this
record I want to especially encourage you

1141
01:05:45,017 --> 01:05:50,113
if the first listen or two is like I'm not
getting it just immerse Start immersing

1142
01:05:50,283 --> 01:05:55,179
if you need to spread out a little bit
around like 3 6 or whatever do it if you

1143
01:05:55,179 --> 01:06:00,059
want to go back to like music style or
mystic styles from 95 Which I totally did

1144
01:06:00,379 --> 01:06:07,435
do it but like It was a, Differently from,
listening to the Grace Jones record enough

1145
01:06:07,465 --> 01:06:12,785
to break into a new form of appreciation,
like, sort of distinct from that, what

1146
01:06:12,795 --> 01:06:17,698
happened here is I, I felt like I kind of
like leaned back into it after a while.

1147
01:06:17,740 --> 01:06:22,830
once the real cadence of all of those
beats, I got used to it again, in the way

1148
01:06:22,830 --> 01:06:27,250
that I used to get used to it on a pretty
regular basis, or have it at a particular

1149
01:06:27,250 --> 01:06:29,000
time of the afternoon every day.

1150
01:06:29,006 --> 01:06:34,180
it unlocks something different and I want
to encourage other people like you can

1151
01:06:34,745 --> 01:06:39,055
You don't have to become a fan of this
music if you don't love it, but a few

1152
01:06:39,055 --> 01:06:43,075
of you are going to brute force your way
there and be surprised on the other side.

1153
01:06:43,445 --> 01:06:45,735
And I'd love the opportunity
to encourage people to do it.

1154
01:06:45,745 --> 01:06:49,895
And like you said, yes, if you can get
in front of a subwoofer that is so loud

1155
01:06:49,895 --> 01:06:54,215
that you cannot communicate to anyone
around you, that is the ideal context.

1156
01:06:54,215 --> 01:06:57,225
But you can step down from there
and still have a good time.

1157
01:06:57,486 --> 01:06:59,736
Kyle: You raise an excellent point there.

1158
01:06:59,796 --> 01:07:02,046
That there is an enormous
cinematic universe.

1159
01:07:02,232 --> 01:07:06,969
With three, six and hypnotize camp
that there, is an entry point for 99

1160
01:07:06,979 --> 01:07:10,485
out of a hundred people alive where
something about this will hit you.

1161
01:07:10,514 --> 01:07:14,207
You can go all the way back to
the early to mid nineties to back

1162
01:07:14,207 --> 01:07:18,787
when they were lo fi and find some
of that cool, hard lo fi shit.

1163
01:07:19,217 --> 01:07:24,237
You can find, a beat somewhere
along the timeline that is the

1164
01:07:24,237 --> 01:07:25,904
beat that you put on a playlist.

1165
01:07:26,314 --> 01:07:27,888
That nothing else sounds like it.

1166
01:07:28,001 --> 01:07:31,614
think of an early thing, like riding
the Chevy would be an example for me.

1167
01:07:31,894 --> 01:07:32,754
I just love the beat.

1168
01:07:33,034 --> 01:07:34,124
Just listen to it all the time.

1169
01:07:34,584 --> 01:07:37,911
There could be a funny thing gangsta
booze, where them dollars at,

1170
01:07:37,911 --> 01:07:41,921
you know, just like another funny
chicken head slice of life type song.

1171
01:07:41,921 --> 01:07:45,175
or it could be any point in this
early to mid 2000s where like.

1172
01:07:45,351 --> 01:07:50,263
Hypnotized camp was on a generational run
with tell the club up dogs who run it.

1173
01:07:50,263 --> 01:07:53,792
The head buses, little white, if
that's your flavor, little white

1174
01:07:53,792 --> 01:07:55,202
eventually gave us jelly roll.

1175
01:07:55,202 --> 01:07:58,533
So, know, maybe apologies for that.

1176
01:07:59,369 --> 01:08:02,609
but it culminated, like we mentioned
with an Oscar win for the song

1177
01:08:02,609 --> 01:08:04,249
and hustle and flow in 2006.

1178
01:08:04,299 --> 01:08:07,509
But like they're putting out
whole records of, of really

1179
01:08:07,509 --> 01:08:09,969
incredible beats and soundscapes.

1180
01:08:10,119 --> 01:08:14,819
And you can find something like you can
do an enormous 300 song playlist and just

1181
01:08:14,819 --> 01:08:18,389
think about the fact that they all made
all these songs in this short amount of

1182
01:08:18,389 --> 01:08:22,679
time, locked in like the soul query and
just making beats all day and all night.

1183
01:08:23,199 --> 01:08:25,269
And there's something in there
that you're like, Oh, that's dope.

1184
01:08:25,909 --> 01:08:26,569
That's really cool.

1185
01:08:26,779 --> 01:08:27,369
I'm into that.

1186
01:08:27,509 --> 01:08:30,931
and there's enough there that I,
think speaks to the reason that

1187
01:08:30,931 --> 01:08:34,586
they have had such widespread
and deep cultural influence.

1188
01:08:35,012 --> 01:08:36,102
Cliff: I have a fun idea.

1189
01:08:36,872 --> 01:08:42,315
Let's, uh, let's use Drake as
a stepping off point so that we

1190
01:08:42,315 --> 01:08:44,515
don't have to stand near him.

1191
01:08:45,251 --> 01:08:50,179
because, One of the, again, bajillion
ways we can start heading downhill

1192
01:08:50,359 --> 01:08:54,729
is 2021's Knife Talk, right,
which Project Pat showed up on by

1193
01:08:54,739 --> 01:08:57,079
Drake, uh, on Certified Loverboy.

1194
01:08:57,539 --> 01:09:00,709
All that sucks, point
being, what I'm saying is if

1195
01:09:00,844 --> 01:09:01,814
Kyle: The song doesn't suck.

1196
01:09:01,814 --> 01:09:02,644
It's a good song,

1197
01:09:02,654 --> 01:09:03,534
unfortunately.

1198
01:09:03,864 --> 01:09:04,464
Cliff: exactly.

1199
01:09:04,594 --> 01:09:08,944
Okay, but what we're going to do is make
Knife Talk the inside of the black hole.

1200
01:09:09,144 --> 01:09:13,864
So, take me away from there and show
me any of the places I can go from

1201
01:09:13,864 --> 01:09:16,544
here to start going down rabbit holes.

1202
01:09:17,048 --> 01:09:22,174
What?

1203
01:09:22,174 --> 01:09:22,674
Kyle: marriage.

1204
01:09:22,674 --> 01:09:26,324
He's the kid from suburban Toronto
that has no business being in this

1205
01:09:26,324 --> 01:09:28,204
world anymore than Cliff and I do.

1206
01:09:28,884 --> 01:09:34,304
and if you need to see whether
or not he's real, then just watch

1207
01:09:34,444 --> 01:09:38,904
the Knife Talk video and see how
he holds the literal knife in it.

1208
01:09:39,357 --> 01:09:41,407
Baby's first Halloween costume.

1209
01:09:41,407 --> 01:09:48,386
Um, also, Knifetalk was supposed to
be on 21 Savage's Savage Mode 2, and

1210
01:09:48,386 --> 01:09:52,516
Drake, like he's done so many other
times, colonized it for himself.

1211
01:09:52,576 --> 01:09:56,886
If you go back to the worst behavior
video, he uses Memphis, the city and

1212
01:09:56,886 --> 01:10:01,157
project Pat and juicy J the people as
cred props in the background of that

1213
01:10:01,167 --> 01:10:05,396
for the song, worst behavior from I,
from now, but nothing was the same.

1214
01:10:05,416 --> 01:10:08,571
I want to say still looking
like the guy from Degrassi in a

1215
01:10:08,571 --> 01:10:12,401
hockey Jersey and backwards hat
in that just like a frat boy.

1216
01:10:12,468 --> 01:10:16,322
Parachuting in, and then that's not
even the most egregious defense.

1217
01:10:16,362 --> 01:10:19,185
The worst is the song
look alive by black boy.

1218
01:10:19,195 --> 01:10:19,735
JB.

1219
01:10:19,975 --> 01:10:20,715
Great song.

1220
01:10:20,855 --> 01:10:21,807
Hey, how much I love it.

1221
01:10:21,807 --> 01:10:25,151
where he wholesale you talk about
Megan doing a four bar homage

1222
01:10:25,191 --> 01:10:29,571
wholesale uses a pat verse that if I
fuck up, I'm gonna be downtown Maine.

1223
01:10:32,691 --> 01:10:36,571
Cliff: J. Cole used a line for a hook,
but that's pretty different from what

1224
01:10:36,656 --> 01:10:40,546
Kyle: interpret it, you know, doing,
doing the luxury interpolation.

1225
01:10:40,566 --> 01:10:41,366
It's not that.

1226
01:10:41,881 --> 01:10:42,431
It's the energy.

1227
01:10:42,441 --> 01:10:43,831
There's something about the energy of it.

1228
01:10:43,831 --> 01:10:46,061
You know, Catalina wine mixers
going great, but there's something

1229
01:10:46,071 --> 01:10:49,410
about your face wants me to land
one right in your suck hole.

1230
01:10:49,793 --> 01:10:51,393
we hate Drake on this podcast.

1231
01:10:52,773 --> 01:10:56,015
Uh, okay, but moving
away from the black hole.

1232
01:10:56,015 --> 01:10:59,235
I'd like to immediately start
moving toward the silver lining.

1233
01:10:59,319 --> 01:11:04,379
Pat himself, obviously does not share
this disdain, um, and so maybe it's not

1234
01:11:04,379 --> 01:11:09,019
our place to, maybe it's not our place
to, but I, I will never get rid of it.

1235
01:11:09,029 --> 01:11:09,489
Sorry.

1236
01:11:09,694 --> 01:11:13,754
Pat said specifically, I
mess with Drake Daddy though.

1237
01:11:13,774 --> 01:11:15,624
Drake Daddy mess with everybody down here.

1238
01:11:16,114 --> 01:11:19,574
He said of Dennis Graham, OG,
he be downtown kicking it.

1239
01:11:19,664 --> 01:11:22,494
Look, and ain't nothing
going to happen to him.

1240
01:11:22,704 --> 01:11:23,144
Nothing.

1241
01:11:23,584 --> 01:11:25,534
Ain't nobody gonna mess
with Drake Daddy, bruh.

1242
01:11:25,954 --> 01:11:27,004
Nobody, man.

1243
01:11:27,164 --> 01:11:27,504
No.

1244
01:11:27,694 --> 01:11:29,154
You're gonna get flatlined.

1245
01:11:29,474 --> 01:11:32,784
They don't play that, cause see,
Drake shows too much love down here.

1246
01:11:32,885 --> 01:11:33,865
So I can respect that.

1247
01:11:33,884 --> 01:11:35,324
Maybe it's all genuine.

1248
01:11:35,324 --> 01:11:39,986
But from there, I think the two things
that I would point out is like, if you

1249
01:11:40,216 --> 01:11:45,836
have listened to Rap Caviar on Spotify,
or if you listen to rap radio anywhere,

1250
01:11:45,936 --> 01:11:52,616
or been to a public venue playing rap
anywhere, In the past 15 years, you're

1251
01:11:52,616 --> 01:11:58,756
going to hear something from somebody who
loves and has taken influence from Pat.

1252
01:11:58,896 --> 01:12:02,846
Gucci Mane basically said, I got my,
like, when I saw Pat rapping as simply

1253
01:12:02,846 --> 01:12:04,536
as he did, I knew I could do it.

1254
01:12:04,563 --> 01:12:08,637
The Migos, there is an offset
song where he Straight up,

1255
01:12:08,847 --> 01:12:13,144
borrows from Pat and Miko's ton
of influence from Hypnotized Camp.

1256
01:12:13,226 --> 01:12:17,604
A$ AP Rocky, A$ AP Mob, very easy
to draw that straight line back.

1257
01:12:17,609 --> 01:12:21,637
21 Savage, probably to me the
closest spiritual successor to Pat

1258
01:12:21,727 --> 01:12:25,235
in terms of the realness and the
uniqueness and simplicity of Flow.

1259
01:12:25,317 --> 01:12:29,395
And talking about violence, plainly,
obviously future and then Travis Scott.

1260
01:12:29,395 --> 01:12:33,685
So that that's one whole school, let
you know, the 10, 15 years ago, and now.

1261
01:12:34,105 --> 01:12:36,476
Dominant in terms of
influence on their own.

1262
01:12:37,146 --> 01:12:41,284
But then I'd also say like Memphis
is really having a moment directly

1263
01:12:41,314 --> 01:12:45,784
through people like Glorilla, through
people like the late young Dolph, who.

1264
01:12:45,967 --> 01:12:48,770
you see white girls rapping
Dolph at their wedding now.

1265
01:12:48,820 --> 01:12:51,447
That's sort of a phenomenon
on the internet lately, which,

1266
01:12:51,497 --> 01:12:52,823
I have mixed feelings about.

1267
01:12:53,456 --> 01:12:57,416
Key Glock, who's, you know, like arguably
the king of Memphis of this generation.

1268
01:12:57,836 --> 01:13:02,314
You have Duke Deuce, who quite famously,
you know, Sampled If You Ain't From My

1269
01:13:02,314 --> 01:13:06,552
Hood, for the Crunk Ain't Dead song,
and did that incredible dance where he

1270
01:13:06,552 --> 01:13:08,982
like, they revive him off the table.

1271
01:13:09,021 --> 01:13:12,501
Uh, and then extending to other places
like Houston, you have Megan Thee

1272
01:13:12,501 --> 01:13:16,602
Stallion, like you mentioned, you have
Big X The Plug, you have Tia Kareen.

1273
01:13:16,608 --> 01:13:20,624
Also for Memphis, you have Denzel
Curry sort of in that atmosphere.

1274
01:13:20,624 --> 01:13:23,497
I think Denzel Curry is maybe from
Florida, definitely from somewhere else,

1275
01:13:24,127 --> 01:13:29,412
but like the Glorilla record that blew
up so big last year, there's Pat all

1276
01:13:29,412 --> 01:13:31,252
over that three, six, all over that.

1277
01:13:31,252 --> 01:13:31,632
Like, yeah.

1278
01:13:31,632 --> 01:13:32,952
Glow is Juicy J's.

1279
01:13:32,952 --> 01:13:33,302
Yeah.

1280
01:13:33,302 --> 01:13:35,834
Oh, interpolation to pass
stuff all over there.

1281
01:13:35,930 --> 01:13:37,362
And she's a Titan in her own, right?

1282
01:13:37,432 --> 01:13:40,745
Like, I don't, I don't want to take
away from her very unique thing, but.

1283
01:13:40,814 --> 01:13:45,664
Her birthful spirit is, uh, directly in
the spirit, the lineage of Memphis rap.

1284
01:13:46,196 --> 01:13:46,556
What else?

1285
01:13:46,556 --> 01:13:48,826
Have we touched on all
corners of the influence?

1286
01:13:48,826 --> 01:13:49,646
What else is there?

1287
01:13:50,178 --> 01:13:53,948
Cliff: Everything I think to hit,
we've hit over the course of our

1288
01:13:53,948 --> 01:13:59,058
conversation, but like I've said, my,
knowingly at a sort of disadvantage

1289
01:13:59,068 --> 01:14:03,606
for knowing exactly how to look into
this particular kaleidoscope, but the

1290
01:14:03,714 --> 01:14:05,844
unexpected outcome of that has been.

1291
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:09,470
which, boy, I'm gonna have fun
trying to say this in a way that

1292
01:14:09,470 --> 01:14:11,110
doesn't make me feel pretentious.

1293
01:14:11,659 --> 01:14:17,020
getting better at appreciating music,
we have talked about this, comes

1294
01:14:17,020 --> 01:14:19,050
with a lot of really positive things.

1295
01:14:19,116 --> 01:14:20,546
like a lot of them, sincerely.

1296
01:14:21,216 --> 01:14:25,804
However, your level of, like,
genuine surprise, Decreases

1297
01:14:25,804 --> 01:14:27,064
a little bit over time.

1298
01:14:27,254 --> 01:14:28,544
You like, you know things.

1299
01:14:28,634 --> 01:14:29,414
You know

1300
01:14:29,914 --> 01:14:34,524
You, you start Yeah, And you start to
get a feel for things, even when you

1301
01:14:34,524 --> 01:14:38,414
don't know them, sort of like you can,
you can drive into a town you've never

1302
01:14:38,414 --> 01:14:42,524
been in before, but you sort of know
where everything is, just because you've

1303
01:14:42,524 --> 01:14:45,654
been to a lot of towns, and you're
trying to get good at visiting towns.

1304
01:14:46,314 --> 01:14:52,054
this one has brought back the sense
of like, uh, you don't know shit, bud.

1305
01:14:52,564 --> 01:14:53,894
You don't know anything.

1306
01:14:54,154 --> 01:14:56,714
You don't even begin to know
what you think that you know.

1307
01:14:57,164 --> 01:14:58,084
Uh, and so.

1308
01:14:58,289 --> 01:15:03,449
Um, we talk so much about kind of going
in different directions, especially

1309
01:15:03,459 --> 01:15:08,539
through time that an artist will send
you on and, you know, we, we've recently

1310
01:15:08,539 --> 01:15:12,889
talked about a couple of episodes ago,
we talked about Paramore and how we.

1311
01:15:13,184 --> 01:15:16,374
We covered, you know, their latest record,
at least at the time of that recording,

1312
01:15:16,634 --> 01:15:20,554
uh, and we sort of used it as a window
to look as far back as we wanted to look

1313
01:15:20,554 --> 01:15:22,434
at and see a bunch of different moments.

1314
01:15:22,780 --> 01:15:26,640
like, like you've described, like
the, the cinematic universe feel

1315
01:15:26,950 --> 01:15:32,090
of everything around Project Pat,
Juicy J, Three 6, anything like that.

1316
01:15:32,090 --> 01:15:33,506
Feels, you know what?

1317
01:15:33,526 --> 01:15:35,036
We're gonna, we're gonna dork for it.

1318
01:15:35,226 --> 01:15:35,566
Okay?

1319
01:15:35,566 --> 01:15:37,156
Because you said cinematic universe.

1320
01:15:37,346 --> 01:15:42,616
It does actually remind me of the
period of time in between me finding

1321
01:15:42,616 --> 01:15:47,186
out that the Marvel movies had a
thread and me reading like all of the

1322
01:15:47,186 --> 01:15:49,276
comic books that they stole it from.

1323
01:15:50,371 --> 01:15:53,641
in that little period of time, it
was like, Oh, there's a bunch of shit

1324
01:15:53,641 --> 01:15:57,001
hiding in here that I don't understand
yet, and I'm willing to, like,

1325
01:15:57,171 --> 01:16:01,731
watch this dumbass movie three times
just to catch this little reference

1326
01:16:01,731 --> 01:16:03,451
in here because it's interesting.

1327
01:16:03,721 --> 01:16:06,211
And it, like, kind of gives
me something to explore.

1328
01:16:06,521 --> 01:16:08,761
And there's no one, like,
there's no test coming.

1329
01:16:09,111 --> 01:16:11,631
There's no one here telling me
I should know this, or I should

1330
01:16:11,631 --> 01:16:12,851
have already known, or whatever.

1331
01:16:13,131 --> 01:16:18,746
So I can just sort of, like, Explore until
I get saturated with the realization of

1332
01:16:18,746 --> 01:16:20,356
all the little secrets that are in here.

1333
01:16:20,616 --> 01:16:24,706
Um, and now I can watch them
make, 30 TV series that don't have

1334
01:16:24,706 --> 01:16:26,026
anything to do with anything anymore.

1335
01:16:26,286 --> 01:16:30,376
Point being, that is a lot of the
sensation I get from this, again.

1336
01:16:30,676 --> 01:16:34,251
And maybe, like I've admitted
several times, maybe that does just

1337
01:16:34,261 --> 01:16:38,211
connect really tenderly to like a
very particular moment in my life.

1338
01:16:38,521 --> 01:16:45,362
And like, I have a, I have a genuine
love for 16 year old me and the type of

1339
01:16:45,362 --> 01:16:49,512
dude that he was and what he was trying
to do and how he was trying to live.

1340
01:16:49,812 --> 01:16:52,902
And like, this gives me not
only that feeling, but then just

1341
01:16:52,902 --> 01:16:56,112
like, I feel like I am just.

1342
01:16:56,542 --> 01:17:01,152
Awash in places to go and things to
think about in hip hop to listen to

1343
01:17:01,382 --> 01:17:05,402
and artists that I haven't heard Even
though i'm thinking about artists.

1344
01:17:05,402 --> 01:17:10,881
I haven't heard that are from the late
90s or early 2000s Not too many things

1345
01:17:10,911 --> 01:17:17,688
get, like, reinvigorate that sense of
infinity for me anymore in music, it

1346
01:17:17,758 --> 01:17:22,098
has such a, like, don't give a shit
attitude the whole time that it really

1347
01:17:22,098 --> 01:17:27,758
feels uncanny, uh, for this to have that
level of effect on it, but, like, going

1348
01:17:27,758 --> 01:17:32,708
back and having, like we've talked about
so much, whether it's the new forms of

1349
01:17:32,998 --> 01:17:40,013
audio output that just, Actually sound
good, or ways of like perusing music

1350
01:17:40,043 --> 01:17:44,083
that we didn't have when this album came
out and things like that, like, it just

1351
01:17:44,363 --> 01:17:48,993
reignites that feeling of possibility
in music and the thing that makes me

1352
01:17:49,213 --> 01:17:53,683
love music in a way that I'm sure other
people love art, but that we're constantly

1353
01:17:53,683 --> 01:17:57,745
trying to express, which is otherwise
experienced as a pretty nonverbal thing,

1354
01:17:57,745 --> 01:18:00,035
but just like, man, it shows up here.

1355
01:18:01,461 --> 01:18:04,680
Kyle: I'm going to be talking about
the universe and talking about physical

1356
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:08,435
place, the like sensation of town you've
already been in reminds me that before

1357
01:18:08,435 --> 01:18:11,854
we recorded, I think when we decided
like, okay, we're finally going to talk

1358
01:18:11,854 --> 01:18:15,224
about this record, you mentioned offhand,
another thing that I would have never

1359
01:18:15,224 --> 01:18:19,734
considered, which is a connection, a
spiritual connection to Kendrick Lamar,

1360
01:18:19,964 --> 01:18:20,544
Cliff: Oh, yeah.

1361
01:18:20,978 --> 01:18:25,768
Kyle: expand on that, I wanted to
save that a little bit, expand on What

1362
01:18:25,768 --> 01:18:30,068
that connection is for you, because
I feel like almost as much as I love

1363
01:18:30,068 --> 01:18:34,028
project Pat, you love Kendrick Lamar
and especially the really like place

1364
01:18:34,058 --> 01:18:36,938
based Kendrick that, you know, we
talked about in a previous episode,

1365
01:18:37,061 --> 01:18:37,551
Cliff: totally.

1366
01:18:37,601 --> 01:18:39,121
Thank you for reminding me of that.

1367
01:18:39,201 --> 01:18:46,621
This is exactly one of those examples
of, I got surprised by the dots

1368
01:18:46,621 --> 01:18:48,491
that I started connecting in a

1369
01:18:48,491 --> 01:18:52,426
way that, Uh, oh, oh man.

1370
01:18:53,005 --> 01:18:53,635
Kyle: I'm a dad.

1371
01:18:53,635 --> 01:18:56,025
I get one, an episode punched my punch

1372
01:18:56,130 --> 01:18:57,530
Cliff: You get as many as you want, bud.

1373
01:18:57,530 --> 01:18:59,690
I just get to make that
sound after you do it.

1374
01:18:59,735 --> 01:19:00,065
Kyle: Yeah, that's

1375
01:19:01,329 --> 01:19:04,975
Cliff: maybe the easiest parallel to
draw, like, Project Pad on this record,

1376
01:19:04,975 --> 01:19:09,022
we, we've talked about, is a lot of
times, just like, telling a story.

1377
01:19:09,642 --> 01:19:15,656
And, It doesn't necessarily glorify
or try to gloss over the shittiness

1378
01:19:15,686 --> 01:19:17,796
of what the story is itself about.

1379
01:19:18,056 --> 01:19:20,636
It's just a story, and it's
true because he was there.

1380
01:19:21,046 --> 01:19:27,366
And like, similarly, when we talked about
the Good Kid, Mad City episode, when we

1381
01:19:27,366 --> 01:19:32,553
talked about the Art of Peer Pressure from
Kendrick, and it's like, the,  placeness

1382
01:19:32,589 --> 01:19:38,389
of a story, the feeling, and the cadence,
and the sounds, and the production,

1383
01:19:38,709 --> 01:19:44,799
everything anchoring you in those moments,
like in The Art of Peer Pressure, or,

1384
01:19:45,179 --> 01:19:48,469
some of the other examples on that album
in particular, like it's a very like

1385
01:19:48,819 --> 01:19:51,729
2000s Compton thing this is Kendrick.

1386
01:19:51,739 --> 01:19:55,959
He was this person, and you know, we
talked all about how the story gets

1387
01:19:55,959 --> 01:19:59,569
told there, but like, you know, he's,
he's telling you a story about a person

1388
01:19:59,599 --> 01:20:04,030
and a group of people in a place, and
they're doing things together, and When

1389
01:20:04,030 --> 01:20:08,630
you hear it enough, and when you absorb
enough of the sort of culture around

1390
01:20:08,630 --> 01:20:13,940
it, it has a ring of familiarity to
it, and it feels like the place, and it

1391
01:20:13,950 --> 01:20:18,470
has you know, especially in Kendrick's
stories, like, it feels like you're

1392
01:20:18,470 --> 01:20:22,939
running somewhere, away from the cops,
towards somebody There's a problem.

1393
01:20:22,949 --> 01:20:23,619
There's a thing.

1394
01:20:23,629 --> 01:20:27,229
There's something is sort of happening
and you're responding to it and

1395
01:20:27,269 --> 01:20:30,039
you get dropped into the middle of
the story and here's Kendrick just

1396
01:20:30,069 --> 01:20:34,519
basically trying to kind of overwhelm
you with the feelings of that moment.

1397
01:20:34,969 --> 01:20:41,729
And so, similarly then, when Project
Pat will tell you a story, It feels like

1398
01:20:41,729 --> 01:20:46,299
you're sitting there in a lawn chair in a
parking lot listening to him tell a story

1399
01:20:46,479 --> 01:20:48,079
while a beat plays in the background.

1400
01:20:48,499 --> 01:20:55,169
And like, it feels like Memphis, and
even though, you know, neither one of

1401
01:20:55,169 --> 01:21:00,099
us were kids growing up in Memphis in
the, you know, 80s and early 90s, like,

1402
01:21:00,319 --> 01:21:05,469
to me those two worlds, all of a sudden
there was like a wormhole between them.

1403
01:21:05,764 --> 01:21:10,800
it was just two variations of what
can happen to individuals who end

1404
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:13,890
up becoming people who are good
enough to write lyrics about it.

1405
01:21:14,250 --> 01:21:16,960
And like, so we get to peer back
through those individual people

1406
01:21:16,970 --> 01:21:19,950
back into like, what it felt
like in those moments for them.

1407
01:21:20,420 --> 01:21:23,450
And you can tell that in so many
minutes, er, in so many moments for

1408
01:21:23,450 --> 01:21:30,875
Kendrick, those moments are  And
almost like fear or risk, right?

1409
01:21:31,135 --> 01:21:35,936
And when I hear a story about Memphis,
it's sort of more like, well, yep,

1410
01:21:35,946 --> 01:21:37,526
that's the shit that happened yesterday.

1411
01:21:37,582 --> 01:21:37,942
Kyle: Yep.

1412
01:21:38,142 --> 01:21:38,882
Cliff: I'm alive.

1413
01:21:39,009 --> 01:21:39,639
So are you.

1414
01:21:39,736 --> 01:21:40,555
Today's today.

1415
01:21:40,692 --> 01:21:44,442
but it's not, that isn't itself
a statement about the story,

1416
01:21:44,462 --> 01:21:45,882
or judgment about the story.

1417
01:21:45,932 --> 01:21:51,962
It is a like, conceptualization of what
it felt like to live the story itself.

1418
01:21:52,002 --> 01:21:54,212
And then hear somebody
tell you about it later.

1419
01:21:54,692 --> 01:21:59,667
And just like, again, just Even that
was just one place where I started

1420
01:21:59,667 --> 01:22:03,276
seeing like, okay, Kendrick's not
on the other side of that song,

1421
01:22:03,306 --> 01:22:06,876
pointing back at Project Pat,
going, that's where I got this from.

1422
01:22:07,226 --> 01:22:09,196
But like, that's not how hip hop works.

1423
01:22:09,546 --> 01:22:11,176
And that's not how hip hop has to work.

1424
01:22:11,206 --> 01:22:15,836
And that's some of the magic of it,
is like, you can see things reflected

1425
01:22:15,866 --> 01:22:20,106
unintentionally in other places, in
different times, and in different

1426
01:22:20,526 --> 01:22:25,697
Cultures, but that are you know, closely
enough connected, like in this case, cars.

1427
01:22:26,087 --> 01:22:28,097
In one case, you're
using cars as a getaway.

1428
01:22:28,097 --> 01:22:32,305
In another case, you're using cars as
sort of like a base camp to set up in.

1429
01:22:32,655 --> 01:22:37,385
And, like, even just finding those
little areas of connection help

1430
01:22:37,385 --> 01:22:39,200
me to like see and appreciate.

1431
01:22:39,610 --> 01:22:45,220
Even modern rap, totally differently that,
you know, may stylistically be pretty

1432
01:22:45,220 --> 01:22:50,956
unique from, this record in particular,
but, from a storytelling perspective

1433
01:22:50,986 --> 01:22:56,873
that matters as it relates to where the
story is taking place, and specifically

1434
01:22:56,873 --> 01:23:01,593
in this case for, cultures that I get to
have the, honestly, like the privilege

1435
01:23:01,593 --> 01:23:04,283
of hearing about in a genuine way.

1436
01:23:04,756 --> 01:23:08,653
those are really cool moments
and honestly, maybe if in my

1437
01:23:08,653 --> 01:23:13,280
moments of being too hard on hip
hop, it's because I want more.

1438
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:20,530
Of that sincerity and a little bit less
of a bitch's money fame, which is, I know

1439
01:23:20,530 --> 01:23:24,110
a pretty common complaint, but like, once
again, here we are talking about a record

1440
01:23:24,110 --> 01:23:26,570
that honestly, isn't bitch's money fame.

1441
01:23:26,860 --> 01:23:30,960
Uh, there's a lot here, uh, and
there's a lot of genuineness and

1442
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:34,390
sincerity about this that you can
appreciate if you lean into it.

1443
01:23:34,432 --> 01:23:37,772
Kyle: It also strikes me that,
thinking about Kendrick and the

1444
01:23:37,772 --> 01:23:42,055
way you talked about movement,
there's a sensation of movement, but

1445
01:23:42,055 --> 01:23:44,405
you feel physically in the world.

1446
01:23:44,415 --> 01:23:47,059
And part of that is sonic collage.

1447
01:23:47,059 --> 01:23:52,749
And I would love to give flowers to
Smart hip hop storytellers that, if it's

1448
01:23:52,769 --> 01:23:57,059
the band can, or it's some band that
has a reputation for high art, for like

1449
01:23:57,059 --> 01:23:59,399
field recording and sound collaging.

1450
01:23:59,834 --> 01:24:02,334
like that tweet that got quote
tweeted a lot for a while.

1451
01:24:02,334 --> 01:24:05,774
Like what's one thing that's
considered classy if you're

1452
01:24:05,774 --> 01:24:08,944
rich and trashy, if you're poor,
you know, it's like, it's cool.

1453
01:24:08,944 --> 01:24:10,794
If it's art rock to do this kind of thing.

1454
01:24:10,794 --> 01:24:16,064
And it's sort of disregarded as like skit
bullshit if it's on a hip hop record.

1455
01:24:16,484 --> 01:24:20,974
But the, the detail that we talked about
Grace Jones and the, the dogs being

1456
01:24:21,313 --> 01:24:23,763
present in, in the argument at the bridge.

1457
01:24:24,148 --> 01:24:26,648
There's great examples of
that on good get mad city.

1458
01:24:26,858 --> 01:24:27,988
You mentioned Vince Staples.

1459
01:24:27,988 --> 01:24:32,968
He does a lot of that stuff, you know,
porch screen doors and that sort of thing.

1460
01:24:33,110 --> 01:24:36,940
but specifically like the bus pulling
up in the out there skits, like a

1461
01:24:36,940 --> 01:24:40,740
detail they did not have to have,
but it's there and it's all just like

1462
01:24:40,740 --> 01:24:44,150
real stuff happening in that world.

1463
01:24:44,150 --> 01:24:47,000
So there's that level of detail
that you can get to, to that

1464
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:48,853
makes it that much more real.

1465
01:24:48,950 --> 01:24:51,550
And I think you make a good point
that it's not the performance of real.

1466
01:24:51,550 --> 01:24:53,250
It's not the exaggeration of real.

1467
01:24:53,260 --> 01:24:55,180
That's like, this is how hard I am.

1468
01:24:55,850 --> 01:24:59,089
This is this aspirational stuff
that I'm doing, like getting money.

1469
01:24:59,389 --> 01:25:00,610
it just is what it is.

1470
01:25:00,610 --> 01:25:03,420
It doesn't try to make
you feel the way about it.

1471
01:25:03,672 --> 01:25:05,592
Cliff: so where do you want
to send people from here?

1472
01:25:05,592 --> 01:25:08,672
Hopefully I've inspired them a
little bit to be willing to do it.

1473
01:25:08,773 --> 01:25:12,810
And, gave a pretty good Not a
pretty good, that's underselling it.

1474
01:25:12,834 --> 01:25:16,894
You have a really good overview of a lot
of the modern places where you can end up.

1475
01:25:16,904 --> 01:25:21,394
But like, I guess if I were a generic me
and you could like wind me up and point me

1476
01:25:21,394 --> 01:25:26,459
in a really specific direction after being
like, I, everything's working for me, sir.

1477
01:25:26,649 --> 01:25:28,849
Why don't you send me in a new direction?

1478
01:25:28,859 --> 01:25:29,399
Thank you.

1479
01:25:29,719 --> 01:25:34,059
So like, what, what, what would you
do without having to defend why you

1480
01:25:34,059 --> 01:25:35,729
only chose one particular avenue,

1481
01:25:35,872 --> 01:25:36,362
Kyle: yeah.

1482
01:25:36,588 --> 01:25:40,459
The first obvious answer is if you're
deciding that you like more hip hop.

1483
01:25:40,506 --> 01:25:41,796
You know, or, or a different fleet.

1484
01:25:41,796 --> 01:25:45,770
Like if you've been like a tribe Nas,
whatever type person, and this has

1485
01:25:45,770 --> 01:25:50,675
been a cutoff Avenue for you, you can
go back to four bears of Southern hip

1486
01:25:50,675 --> 01:25:55,255
hop and like street storytelling, hip
hop, like eight ball and MJG is great.

1487
01:25:55,595 --> 01:25:56,135
Two shorts.

1488
01:25:56,145 --> 01:25:56,615
Great.

1489
01:25:56,675 --> 01:25:57,735
UGK is great.

1490
01:25:58,285 --> 01:26:02,295
NWA ghetto boys, Scarface,
all stuff like that.

1491
01:26:02,295 --> 01:26:05,865
That's not where I think
I would go next from here.

1492
01:26:06,023 --> 01:26:10,893
I have a playlist, my literal single
favorite playlist that I play all

1493
01:26:10,893 --> 01:26:14,681
the time, like nights to go to
sleep, when I have people over to

1494
01:26:14,681 --> 01:26:16,336
like hang out on the back porch.

1495
01:26:16,369 --> 01:26:19,969
It's called Blue Dream, named after
the Juicy J record Blue Dream and Lean.

1496
01:26:19,969 --> 01:26:24,591
And Juicy got to this point as a
producer where he signaled that he was

1497
01:26:24,591 --> 01:26:27,391
going to do a soul sample based beat.

1498
01:26:27,776 --> 01:26:31,846
Like really soulful, not buried
in it, really oriented around

1499
01:26:31,940 --> 01:26:34,928
old school street soul, he would
say, play me some Peppermint and

1500
01:26:34,928 --> 01:26:36,358
that is how it would kick off.

1501
01:26:36,390 --> 01:26:40,350
And the point that I think I
want to get people back to.

1502
01:26:40,534 --> 01:26:45,951
In a world of seeking community and
a misunderstanding of we are allowed

1503
01:26:45,951 --> 01:26:49,664
to have a mix of feelings about the
South, but I'm a proud Patriot of

1504
01:26:49,664 --> 01:26:52,544
the South thinking about that old
Maylene and the sons of disaster line.

1505
01:26:52,544 --> 01:26:54,674
Like I've traveled the
country far and wide, but I'll

1506
01:26:54,674 --> 01:26:55,834
always be a son of the South.

1507
01:26:56,514 --> 01:27:01,194
I love who I am and I love who you are and
we wouldn't be the weird ass white boys.

1508
01:27:01,194 --> 01:27:07,954
We were, we are without having grown
up in the sweet syrupy fucked up South.

1509
01:27:08,381 --> 01:27:09,851
I'm so proud of this place.

1510
01:27:10,014 --> 01:27:13,294
yeah, a lot of bad stuff has come from
here, but like, I think all the best

1511
01:27:13,294 --> 01:27:18,272
stuff in the history of this deeply
imperfect nation has come from the South.

1512
01:27:18,342 --> 01:27:21,237
I'm like, I'll stand on business
about that until the day that I die.

1513
01:27:21,237 --> 01:27:25,708
So I think just like the South is
the home of soul, capital S soul

1514
01:27:25,798 --> 01:27:29,528
in the country, soul movement,
civil rights, all that stuff.

1515
01:27:30,228 --> 01:27:33,438
So like rediscovering the soul
and finding something to love.

1516
01:27:33,828 --> 01:27:37,618
about the American experiment has
come directly from all the ugliness.

1517
01:27:37,638 --> 01:27:42,360
you can start with the soul, like Isaac
Hayes, Ohio players, the OJs, Bobby

1518
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:46,200
Womack, certainly Willie Hutch, who's
finally at long last on streaming.

1519
01:27:46,550 --> 01:27:50,180
This stuff wasn't available other than
the Mack soundtrack for a long time.

1520
01:27:50,180 --> 01:27:51,220
So I'm very excited about that.

1521
01:27:51,220 --> 01:27:52,790
The song sampled in Stay Fly.

1522
01:27:53,118 --> 01:27:54,608
Tell me why is our love turned cold?

1523
01:27:54,753 --> 01:27:55,887
All time stone cold.

1524
01:27:55,931 --> 01:27:59,919
Soul classic now on Spotify, but
beyond the music and like, spreading

1525
01:27:59,919 --> 01:28:03,370
out your stride a little expensive
time in the South, man, come down

1526
01:28:03,370 --> 01:28:06,439
here and not just passing through the
airport, eat the food, meet the elder,

1527
01:28:06,489 --> 01:28:08,783
talk to the people at the food place.

1528
01:28:08,963 --> 01:28:11,603
Like we're talking about, like sit
in a Waffle house for four hours.

1529
01:28:11,653 --> 01:28:13,893
Talk to an old person,
appreciate the history.

1530
01:28:13,912 --> 01:28:17,113
and I say that cause like, I don't want
us to take for granted that this may not

1531
01:28:17,113 --> 01:28:18,593
be the music that you grew up around.

1532
01:28:18,654 --> 01:28:20,897
and all the world building
implications of that.

1533
01:28:20,915 --> 01:28:24,175
So I guess at least appreciate where
this could have come from and like,

1534
01:28:24,185 --> 01:28:28,291
appreciate that it gave rise to what
Pat is doing now, what his prison

1535
01:28:28,301 --> 01:28:31,952
ministry efforts, and just like taking
the reality of this album for what it

1536
01:28:31,952 --> 01:28:36,481
is, is as he says on the sort of seminal
song on this record, take the good

1537
01:28:36,481 --> 01:28:39,871
with the bad, smile with the sad, love
what you got and remember what you had

1538
01:28:40,326 --> 01:28:41,436
Cliff: And go to Memphis.

1539
01:28:41,787 --> 01:28:43,147
Kyle: and have a biscuit for us.