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Cliff: You're listening to TuneDig.

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Lucky you.

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A conversation between two lifelong
friends about the power of music.

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One album at a time.

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I am Cliff.

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Kyle: And I'm Kyle each episode, we talk
about a single album in depth, unpacking

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it through conversation to understand
what makes it worth appreciating

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and hopefully, mercifully learning a
little bit about life along the way.

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Cliff: Please.

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If you're listening for the first time
because we're covering an artist or

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a record you love, we do promise you
will learn something new or gain a new

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perspective by the end of the episode.

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Kyle: And if you stuck with us for
multiple episodes, you know, by now.

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One, that we're strange, and two, that
you are bound to expand your horizons.

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So as we share a clear entry
point for artists you may have

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never tried to get into before,
today is perhaps one such example.

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We're talking about  Gour,
Fantastic Planet soundtrack.

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Cliff: La planète sauvage.

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Kyle: I will be attempting no French.

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this

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Cliff: I'm gonna make a meal
out of it when we do though.

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Kyle: A delicious meal because it's

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Cliff: Yeah, lots of carbs.

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This one's awesome.

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it's somehow unusual uh, in terms
of it being a lot of things we'll

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talk about a movie soundtrack among
several things, French, et cetera.

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And at the same time, I think we'll
probably find that it's for the

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most part directly and straight
up the alley of the normal things

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that we do like to listen to.

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We'll probably draw a thread that.

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We'll hopefully only surprise
people who didn't know as much about

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this record before we got started.

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Because it's more everywhere than it
feels like at this moment if you don't

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already know that it's everywhere.

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Kyle: I'm also very surprised that
we've made it this far without not just

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talking about a film score or something
directly film involved, but like it

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anything this adjacent to film at all.

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And like you alluded to, I think there are
places where we've touched intersections

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and I know we'll talk about those, but I
don't know why it's never occurred to us.

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I don't know.

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No time like the present.

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I think it surfaced for me that I don't
really ever sit down to listen to  it's

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a category that's very easy for me to
mentally other and I know there are

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people who feel the direct opposite of
that and seek things out because they're

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done by a film composer or because
they accompanied a film somebody liked.

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I've had to sit down and examine why I
place it in some other, no pun intended,

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extraterrestrial category of music
when you have examples like this that

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exists that are very much their own
thing that just work on their face.

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Cliff: Luckily, I think this episode
will do that for anybody who isn't

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already doing it with this album,
because it's a real good one to pull out.

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It stands on its own, and as opposed to
probably many musical works that would

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be associated, driven from, whatever,
a visual medium, movies, whatever else,

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this one doesn't need a specific level
of explanation to get why it's good.

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It adds a level to it, instead.

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Even with a lot of orchestral scores
or things like that would normally

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go along with the movie, there's
some foundational amount you need to

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be aware of in the plot or whatever
else to truly make sense of it all.

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And this one just has multiple levels.

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of why it's worth checking out, listening
to actively, passively, whatever it

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works in every possible context, which
is why we'll spend most of this episode

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reminding you of how many places it's
in hip hop, which is exactly the place

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where things that are good, at their core
dissected a lot end up because they get

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pieced apart and shoved into new ideas
and they end up making a ton of sense.

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Kyle: ever since we talked about
Marvin, I have been thinking a

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lot about that idea of I want you
being a, you can start from zero.

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I've never heard this album.

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I know nothing about Marvin Gaye.

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I just put it on and the sounds hit me.

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This is like that too, where
starting from zero is actually

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really good and you should do that.

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And that's not always the case with music.

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Sometimes you can't make heads or
tails of it without some amount

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of context, but this just works.

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And there's some groove and
some repetition just sounds the

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combination of sounds are cool.

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And I think they hit you in a
reptile brain but then every little

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bit of context you get beyond that.

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enriches the information
your body is receiving.

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so it's, very cool that we're
like two for two on that.

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" Start from zero and it only gets better
from there" way of appreciative inroads.

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Cliff: A hundred percent.

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And I think we can probably drop a boat
anchor early in the episode too, for folks

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who are coming in more blind than usual.

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Let me just go ahead and make
a few, probably, associations

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that we'll explain as we talk.

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But, These are really quick ways, almost
like a musical spoiler, I guess, a way

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to start looking at this really quickly,
where if you're not already convinced

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this is going to be worth some time,
let me just show you the range of things

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you can already look at from the jump.

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About this because one is yes Hip hop if
you like any form of trip hop or you've

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ever liked any form of trip hop lo fi
almost anything in that Meta genre at

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all One this is gonna hit In a way that
surprises you, but secondly, and at the

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exact same time, if you like the band
can, you're going to like what's happening

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here for totally different reasons.

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If you like funk, you're going
to like what's happening here

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for totally different reasons.

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If you like really experimental music,
and I'm sorry to bring them up for

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the second time, but it's a good kind
of front door for the whole thing.

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If you like the way that Mars Volta
gets weird and interluding, this is

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another way for you to experience
what's happening on this record.

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Cause it's all of those things.

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And then.

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Is jazz it's just like french jazz So
there's this whole other direct path and

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doorway into the thing and I hope to make
some associations from the jazz angle as

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we go along too, but There are so many
different sides to look at the music

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that's here And it's enjoyable from all
of those angles and it becomes really

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shocking in my experience The more you
listen to this record that it's really

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We have this experience with some of the
episodes that we do, but the more you

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listen to it, the more confused you become
about why this isn't kind of a really,

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really big deal in the sense that you're
always talking about it with a lot of

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people and that everybody knows about it.

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And that's a pretty strange thing
to say about an animated film

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from the seventies in France.

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That it would 50 plus years on still feel
immediate and urgent and relevant and

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interesting and it sounds really good

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But that's the type of stuff
we're trying to dig up anyway,

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Kyle: There's, so much embedded in
the little knowledge nugget that This

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film premiered at Cannes in 1973,
on the back of a few, very weird

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sociopolitical conflict years in Europe.

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The Holy Mountain, premiered that same
year, the Jadrowski film at Cannes.

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I'm still like Imagine seeing
those in the same weekend or

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a double feature or whatever.

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The nugget is that it won The
special prize or whatever it

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did, not the palm your but won

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Cliff: it was the first
animated film ever Yeah

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Kyle: But my understanding of the special
prize is that it it is for the stuff that

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sort of defies Categorization it's like
I don't know what I just watched but It

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left an impression, and there was a real
spirit of that the film that took home the

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overall prize was also an adaptation of a
novel, like Fantastic Planet, but it was

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much more grounded, realistic, dramatic,
so it's that was a very interesting

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sort of mental starting point for me.

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Because I thought about this film long
before I really started concentrating

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on the soundtrack, in the early Netflix
rent two DVDs and get them at home days.

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This was one of the first movies that
Serious people told me that I needed to

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see and I did and then just was like, whoa
That was weird and filed that away for a

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long time before streaming So it exists
between categorization on the visual

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level, on the audio level, on the sort of
like cultural, creative, contextual level.

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I get the sense that it doesn't
get talked about more because

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there's not easy places to slot

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Cliff: I want to encourage people
to just start slotting it into the

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weirdest places you can imagine.

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I was telling Kyle recently uh,
we were laughing a little bit.

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We'll talk about the movie in a
second because I think we should go

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ahead and just highlight a little
bit of that to sort of, vibe check

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this anybody who hasn't seen visuals
associated with it especially.

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I

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Kyle: if you haven't

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you probably have somewhere
in the culture sphere.

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If you ever had Tumblr, if you've been
on the internet, any amount, you've

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seen something, If you haven't seen it,
you've seen something influenced by it.

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Certainly you've seen
something it influenced.

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Like you're aware of it somewhere
deep in the recesses of your mind.

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I, I can say with a high
degree of certainty,

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Cliff: 100 percent And I have a
little bit of trouble once my brain

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decided to associate the modern
I guess it would also be kind of

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surrealist, but the Strange Planet
comics are sort of like an extremely

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modern version of this like Yeah.

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Kyle: damn, you're right.

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Cliff: which is, totally unrelated
but now there's at least a little

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visual mental hook for people to start
thinking about blue people saying

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ridiculous things uh, in a fun cadence.

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But yeah there is a striking visual
style to this whole thing, but

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it's a wild thing in and of itself.

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Point being, Kyle and I were talking about
watching this movie uh, and I specifically

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really enjoyed the idea that I'm just
gonna kind of brutalize my own psyche by

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Watching this really weirdly psychedelic
film in the strangest and most difficult

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contexts I possibly can just to sort of
go all the way to the inside of it and

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just, have the experience I might have
had with the movie Heavy Metal, or Song

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Remains the Same and just, you know,

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Kyle: like the wall.

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Cliff: yeah so yeah, let's just,
let's go hard into the weird and I'll

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watch it and um, like most things
that I go at with that attitude, they

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end up just being funny and fun and
enjoyable so don't overthink watching

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this movie when you get the chance.

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Put it on in the foreground or
the background, it doesn't matter.

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It's gonna be weird, freak you out
a little bit no matter what, cause

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it's, it's It was a 1973 animated film
that was designed to freak you out.

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So we're

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Kyle: You were rattling off that
list and I thought about how much

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you love Xavier Renegade Angel, and
is definitely in that same spirit.

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So like, put on your Adult Swim
glasses for the viewing, for sure.

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Cliff: Man, I love that.

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Yes.

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If you'll combine Xavier Renegade Angel
and maybe the animated yellow submarine

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stuff from the Beatles, you'll be
somewhere in the right headspace, I think.

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But yeah, so as you mentioned this story
translated as fantastic planet, which

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for what it's worth, quick note, even on
that, it's not a super direct translation.

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Generally speaking, a more direct version
of that actual title in French would

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be something more like the wild planet.

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I did a little bit of reading about
that uh, and this is fun, like seventies

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context, but several people decided to.

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guess that the word fantastic
in the 70s meant something a

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little bit more like radical.

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And if you put that veneer over how
that word was used, that'll track a

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little bit better than uh, what the word
fantastic probably feels like today,

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which is a little bit more cheesy or fun,

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Kyle: Yeah, not, not an emotional
connotation like, in the literal

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sense of, it is a fantasy.

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This is a sci fi film, sure

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Cliff: Yes.

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Extremely science fiction in both.

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Both of those words go really
hard on their definitions here.

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This is an allegorical story, yes,
about humans, called Oms living on

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a planet where they are effectively
dominated by giant aliens called

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Drags, or Trags, depending on
how you want to translate this.

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Long and short of it without spoiling the
movie because for real watch the movie.

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It's cool We're going to talk more about
the music than that but effectively

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aliens have these little humans basically
stored up like little pets and the whole

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thing kind of follows the hero's journey,
honestly, and seems to have a lot in

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common with dune such as little vignettes
of Fighting to the death for your survival

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to be welcomed into the tribe and Odd
ceremonies and things like that uh, which

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is just fun to watch people's brain kind
of pour out but the whole story is about

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humans being dominated by these aliens
and basically what happens when people

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cross Boundaries between two species or
whatever else and what happens there?

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So just watch it, but it's based on
a 1957 novel I think by Stephane Wu.

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But, I don't know what the book was like.

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I haven't had time to check that out.

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Also, I'm going to assume a same French.

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So that'd be a tough read for me
personally, but I don't know that

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there's anything inherently animated
or psychedelic or anything about

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it from the jump, especially being
written, you know, 15 to 20 years

222
00:13:14,905 --> 00:13:16,385
prior to this movie being made.

223
00:13:16,755 --> 00:13:21,235
But the lenses that get put on in
1973 to make what is effectively

224
00:13:21,235 --> 00:13:25,625
a really psychedelic sci fi
animated film really comes on

225
00:13:25,625 --> 00:13:27,725
strong, gives a really solid vibe.

226
00:13:28,105 --> 00:13:29,225
And all of that.

227
00:13:29,590 --> 00:13:34,110
I can't say whether it would have worked
with or without this soundtrack, but I

228
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,380
can tell you it works with it The coolest
thing about this record, I think, or the

229
00:13:38,390 --> 00:13:43,268
biggest thing that struck me uh, which
maybe it's obvious to say, but it stands

230
00:13:43,378 --> 00:13:49,278
alone as a piece of music and works really
well as the soundtrack to the movie.

231
00:13:49,378 --> 00:13:52,638
Watching it actually, I'd encourage you,
if you can, and if you haven't seen the

232
00:13:52,638 --> 00:13:55,418
movie, listen to the album at least once.

233
00:13:55,833 --> 00:14:00,723
First and then watch the movie because
you get a real appreciation for how they

234
00:14:00,723 --> 00:14:05,593
play with that music and it starts to
really impress upon you what a talented

235
00:14:05,593 --> 00:14:13,417
composer and arranger, alone was here and
his ability to think through apparently

236
00:14:13,427 --> 00:14:17,726
in the span of about three weeks at the
very end of this project the ability

237
00:14:17,726 --> 00:14:21,336
to put together the soundtrack that
would work so well for such a wild

238
00:14:21,336 --> 00:14:25,900
story  It's one of those moments where
it's not only enjoyable, the fruits of

239
00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:31,020
his labor, but you also start standing
in awe at how good people are at music

240
00:14:31,260 --> 00:14:34,620
in general, that they could crank out
something like this that would work

241
00:14:34,620 --> 00:14:36,780
so well for so long across the board.

242
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:42,340
Kyle: So big plus one to listen to
it before you watch the film and just

243
00:14:42,340 --> 00:14:43,950
appreciate it as a piece of music.

244
00:14:44,050 --> 00:14:48,960
If we're catching you fresh on all of
this stuff, the definite entry point is

245
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:54,340
the album first and then the film, both
of them cold before you read anything.

246
00:14:54,830 --> 00:14:59,150
Reiterate what we said last episode, stop
the tape right now, go enjoy all the stuff

247
00:14:59,190 --> 00:15:01,200
and then come back to this material later.

248
00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:05,960
Because I can assure you that we have
both listened to and watched quite

249
00:15:06,110 --> 00:15:07,970
a number of times at this point.

250
00:15:08,471 --> 00:15:14,251
thing that will strike you immediately
is that it's 25 tracks in 39 minutes.

251
00:15:14,521 --> 00:15:18,301
So it's a bunch of very short
snippets, which, if you're familiar

252
00:15:18,301 --> 00:15:22,286
with film scores, Sometimes you will
have lots of little snippets like

253
00:15:22,286 --> 00:15:26,216
that, but sometimes you will have
like Long orchestral pieces that get

254
00:15:26,216 --> 00:15:28,156
broken up into snippets in the film.

255
00:15:28,256 --> 00:15:33,627
The film itself is only 72 minutes it's a
very very lean watch Arguably a little too

256
00:15:33,627 --> 00:15:42,176
short as a film if anything so like very
much of the film is accompanied by this

257
00:15:42,546 --> 00:15:48,411
music and it it is very contextual but
there is sort of a strange juxtaposition

258
00:15:48,411 --> 00:15:53,428
there it's a bunch of short pieces but
it also because it's based on or grows

259
00:15:53,458 --> 00:15:59,238
from one arpeggiation sort of feels like
one long thing also like Marvin Gaye

260
00:15:59,288 --> 00:16:02,428
I don't think we intended to compare
but it is interesting there are like

261
00:16:02,478 --> 00:16:03,578
Cliff: We never do, but it

262
00:16:03,683 --> 00:16:05,003
Kyle: Yeah, similar energies.

263
00:16:05,018 --> 00:16:05,958
Cliff: always happens.

264
00:16:06,098 --> 00:16:06,428
Yeah,

265
00:16:06,703 --> 00:16:09,493
Kyle: feels like no discernible
beginning or end point because of

266
00:16:09,503 --> 00:16:12,548
the sort of core running through
the heartbeat of the thing.

267
00:16:12,834 --> 00:16:17,741
it is a little strange to like, figure out
what's going on and be like, at what point

268
00:16:17,761 --> 00:16:20,681
in the score am I at any given moment?

269
00:16:20,681 --> 00:16:23,711
Because it's like 47 seconds and
then you're on to the next thing.

270
00:16:23,811 --> 00:16:25,851
one thing that I really enjoyed.

271
00:16:25,951 --> 00:16:29,664
in reading about the film and I've
never spent any time reflecting on the

272
00:16:29,664 --> 00:16:33,854
film or contemplating its themes or
whatever but like film is a world like

273
00:16:33,854 --> 00:16:37,967
music where there are people who have
like written very extensively and done

274
00:16:37,967 --> 00:16:43,565
a lot of Provocative thinking so We'll
link when we post this episode to some

275
00:16:43,565 --> 00:16:47,609
of the film reviews There are a lot of
like great film blog sites, whatever

276
00:16:48,059 --> 00:16:53,885
with smart scholarly people sharing
views on the thing there was one of like

277
00:16:53,895 --> 00:16:57,945
four or five that I really liked each of
them had like a new dimension that they

278
00:16:57,945 --> 00:17:02,115
opened up for me like the symbolism of
the colors or different interpretations

279
00:17:02,115 --> 00:17:07,230
of the allegory You Of which there are
three or four potentially, but film cred

280
00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,337
had this thing I think not only enriches
the viewing of the film, but sort of

281
00:17:11,337 --> 00:17:12,987
informed the way I listen to the music.

282
00:17:13,016 --> 00:17:16,460
After that, and it said, ultimately,
perhaps the best way to view the

283
00:17:16,460 --> 00:17:21,150
film is as a pay into the value of
compassionate, intelligent and knowledge.

284
00:17:21,630 --> 00:17:25,653
Lulu, the director himself, defined
the story as, quote, sort of a hymn

285
00:17:25,673 --> 00:17:30,143
to education in the 1973 French press
book released to promote the film.

286
00:17:30,243 --> 00:17:33,553
Tear, the main character's
narration, pointedly stresses his

287
00:17:33,553 --> 00:17:37,042
delight in learning, a privilege
that the drogs, the other race of

288
00:17:37,042 --> 00:17:38,962
creatures, seem to take for granted.

289
00:17:39,385 --> 00:17:43,278
In listening, there is a
thread of, enlightenment,

290
00:17:43,338 --> 00:17:45,478
enrichment, seeing the other.

291
00:17:45,898 --> 00:17:52,098
We're two American males who only speak
one language, and there is some pretty

292
00:17:52,098 --> 00:17:57,612
pointed metaphor in all of it to me
in, all the layers of unknown unknowns

293
00:17:57,652 --> 00:18:03,549
that get exposed just by like stumbling
Ignorantly as a westerner into like this

294
00:18:03,559 --> 00:18:06,208
delightful little 40 minute piece of music

295
00:18:06,414 --> 00:18:10,123
Cliff: I do think two more very
quick things will help hem in the

296
00:18:10,133 --> 00:18:13,083
what's happening in the movie so
we can keep focusing on the music.

297
00:18:13,183 --> 00:18:18,017
One is, just a delightful quote
that I pulled from New York Times

298
00:18:18,017 --> 00:18:20,287
review of this movie in 1973.

299
00:18:20,637 --> 00:18:24,807
I feel that it encapsulates a little bit
more of what you need to know about it.

300
00:18:25,157 --> 00:18:28,007
One sentence I pulled from it,
quote, There is some inoffensive

301
00:18:28,007 --> 00:18:31,322
nudity, and not one smidgen of
humor, not even for Christmas.

302
00:18:32,335 --> 00:18:34,535
So for the last time,
this is a French film.

303
00:18:34,662 --> 00:18:38,132
Uh, And it meets all of
those criteria very well.

304
00:18:38,132 --> 00:18:42,072
But yeah, it's got that
great This is not funny.

305
00:18:42,172 --> 00:18:43,992
The allegory is very clear.

306
00:18:44,442 --> 00:18:48,772
I do really understand what you are
saying, even if there are levels that I

307
00:18:48,772 --> 00:18:52,392
can keep getting as I watch it a little
bit more, like you're gonna understand

308
00:18:52,392 --> 00:18:58,732
the point of the film fairly directly,
and there are some real cool like, oh,

309
00:18:58,812 --> 00:19:02,612
oh, there's boobs, neat, okay, so we
were doing a, okay, so we were doing a

310
00:19:02,612 --> 00:19:06,142
serious thing, okay, and then, okay, the
boobs, okay, but the boobs are serious

311
00:19:06,142 --> 00:19:08,852
too, okay, we got this, okay, so I had to

312
00:19:08,972 --> 00:19:10,872
Kyle: Like an Oppenheimer, you know

313
00:19:10,932 --> 00:19:11,152
Cliff: yeah,

314
00:19:14,902 --> 00:19:17,352
Kyle: Strictly for
historical purposes, bro

315
00:19:17,622 --> 00:19:21,928
Cliff: like an Oppenheimer, yeah,
One more thing I'll add is, so we

316
00:19:21,928 --> 00:19:23,368
mentioned, you know, this is all French.

317
00:19:23,368 --> 00:19:27,760
It gets translated uh, into, you know,
the word fantastic planet and all that.

318
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:32,080
But for most cases, what I've seen is
that the track names themselves remain

319
00:19:32,140 --> 00:19:34,032
untranslated, generally speaking.

320
00:19:34,072 --> 00:19:37,132
I'm gonna read a few of them translated.

321
00:19:37,452 --> 00:19:41,862
In chronological order like of the track
listing of the album because it does

322
00:19:42,132 --> 00:19:46,862
a decent job of sort of highlighting
what happens in this movie and what the

323
00:19:46,862 --> 00:19:53,412
fuck was happening in the 70s, dude  So
that first word, like the first tracks,

324
00:19:53,762 --> 00:19:56,052
there are multiple de homonization.

325
00:19:56,362 --> 00:20:00,212
So  that's a word that refers to
the moment when the soul has become

326
00:20:00,212 --> 00:20:02,152
separate from the body itself.

327
00:20:02,302 --> 00:20:03,692
So you've got that to start with.

328
00:20:03,812 --> 00:20:04,692
Next track name.

329
00:20:05,132 --> 00:20:05,882
Generic.

330
00:20:05,972 --> 00:20:06,892
The Bracelet.

331
00:20:07,439 --> 00:20:07,739
Yeah.

332
00:20:08,142 --> 00:20:11,496
Which the bracelet pops up in a lot
of the samples we'll talk about well.

333
00:20:11,859 --> 00:20:15,669
but they're, you know, they're all kind of
like, obviously named, so, Dehomonization.

334
00:20:15,679 --> 00:20:16,269
Generic.

335
00:20:16,309 --> 00:20:17,079
The Bracelet.

336
00:20:17,349 --> 00:20:18,139
Further down.

337
00:20:18,479 --> 00:20:19,439
Drag Council.

338
00:20:19,569 --> 00:20:20,199
Men.

339
00:20:20,499 --> 00:20:22,399
The Great Coexistence.

340
00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:23,299
The Woman.

341
00:20:23,609 --> 00:20:24,619
Death of Drag.

342
00:20:24,819 --> 00:20:25,879
The City of Free Men.

343
00:20:25,889 --> 00:20:27,019
Robot Attack.

344
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:28,539
The Long March.

345
00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:29,869
Waltz of the Statues.

346
00:20:30,039 --> 00:20:31,039
The Rockets.

347
00:20:31,379 --> 00:20:31,899
Generic.

348
00:20:31,954 --> 00:20:36,584
Striptease, Children's
Meditation, The Old Woman Dies.

349
00:20:36,791 --> 00:20:37,941
So, that's, um,

350
00:20:38,741 --> 00:20:40,381
Kyle: prompts the way that you read them.

351
00:20:40,381 --> 00:20:40,791
Yeah.

352
00:20:40,891 --> 00:20:41,861
Cliff: Thank you so much.

353
00:20:41,891 --> 00:20:43,421
Yeah, I had been practicing for that.

354
00:20:43,736 --> 00:20:48,136
that last three in a row is a good,
you know, Striptease, Children's

355
00:20:48,136 --> 00:20:51,886
Meditation, The Old Woman Dies is
a good encapsulation of how the

356
00:20:51,886 --> 00:20:53,516
end of that movie feels in general.

357
00:20:54,123 --> 00:20:54,383
yeah

358
00:20:54,573 --> 00:20:58,973
Kyle: and in that quick succession, like
when I say 72 minutes is a little too

359
00:20:58,973 --> 00:21:02,293
lean, it does really fly at the end.

360
00:21:02,393 --> 00:21:03,273
Cliff: Oh, I'm agreed with you.

361
00:21:03,273 --> 00:21:04,293
They could have stressed it out.

362
00:21:04,443 --> 00:21:05,323
I was there for it.

363
00:21:05,663 --> 00:21:06,333
Tell me more.

364
00:21:06,433 --> 00:21:06,813
Kyle: Yeah.

365
00:21:06,813 --> 00:21:07,733
And

366
00:21:08,658 --> 00:21:09,548
Cliff: I want to root for us,

367
00:21:09,913 --> 00:21:12,336
Kyle: and it's so, you wouldn't
want it to be three hours,

368
00:21:12,386 --> 00:21:14,388
obviously, but it's so, Cool.

369
00:21:14,388 --> 00:21:20,904
Disorientingly immersive, that you really
start to feel inside of the world and

370
00:21:20,904 --> 00:21:25,065
then it's like, it's over, you know, the
way that Zeppelin four and all the, great

371
00:21:25,145 --> 00:21:30,152
eight song albums of the seventies are
like 36 minutes or whatever, like this.

372
00:21:30,252 --> 00:21:31,335
And you're like, we're back.

373
00:21:31,335 --> 00:21:34,532
We're like, I just started
thinking thoughts because of this.

374
00:21:34,532 --> 00:21:37,082
Hold on keep going, stretch it out.

375
00:21:37,232 --> 00:21:41,012
Cliff: With more context of the
movie in pocket, the music is what

376
00:21:41,012 --> 00:21:42,212
we're really here to talk about.

377
00:21:42,312 --> 00:21:44,352
And I want to swing back
to it in several ways.

378
00:21:44,372 --> 00:21:47,382
But one is one of the most fun parts.

379
00:21:47,812 --> 00:21:51,862
Of telling musical stories to begin
with not to always zoom all the way

380
00:21:51,862 --> 00:21:55,472
out immediately like this but One of
the reasons we even do this podcast at

381
00:21:55,472 --> 00:22:01,302
all is because there are cool stories
that exist For you to go discover about

382
00:22:01,312 --> 00:22:05,682
music that's interesting like usually
interesting music Had interesting

383
00:22:05,682 --> 00:22:09,732
things happen while they were writing
it or while they were making it or in

384
00:22:09,732 --> 00:22:15,652
the time past after it was released or
something unexpected happened 50 years

385
00:22:15,652 --> 00:22:17,985
later or So, this story has all of that.

386
00:22:18,085 --> 00:22:18,865
Just all of it.

387
00:22:19,035 --> 00:22:22,775
It was cool at the time, 50 plus
years ago, it did something unique

388
00:22:22,775 --> 00:22:25,325
and interesting that was shocking.

389
00:22:25,515 --> 00:22:27,928
That he could churn out this
type of music, again, within

390
00:22:27,928 --> 00:22:29,338
the span of about three weeks.

391
00:22:29,338 --> 00:22:33,571
Uh, Which on top of that, he did
not have access to the movie itself

392
00:22:33,581 --> 00:22:35,841
during the time that he wrote this.

393
00:22:35,941 --> 00:22:42,321
this was arranged, composed, written,
recorded from the memory of what he could

394
00:22:42,321 --> 00:22:46,939
track from the time that he had seen the
animation and what was going into it.

395
00:22:47,209 --> 00:22:50,189
He didn't have time to, actually
be able to view the film back

396
00:22:50,189 --> 00:22:53,239
then because it was still the 70s
and he was on a tight deadline.

397
00:22:53,339 --> 00:22:55,695
Kyle: Which was the opposite of the way.

398
00:22:55,695 --> 00:22:58,968
It was very often done in the studio
systems where they would bring a

399
00:22:58,968 --> 00:23:04,055
composer in early and the rhythm of
the score would help inform the pacing

400
00:23:04,055 --> 00:23:07,735
of the scene or movements or whatever.

401
00:23:07,885 --> 00:23:08,515
And.

402
00:23:08,652 --> 00:23:13,036
It's like the worst, the worst group
project ever, in that the film took

403
00:23:13,046 --> 00:23:20,466
five years to produce and animate
and they kept iterating on it and on

404
00:23:20,466 --> 00:23:25,466
the vinyl re release page, they did
a great write up, and like actually

405
00:23:25,466 --> 00:23:27,616
shared some anecdotes from it.

406
00:23:27,716 --> 00:23:31,881
Apparently, Lelou when they would
talk on the phone, he'd be like, we'll

407
00:23:31,881 --> 00:23:35,081
have you ready to come in and do your
thing in three months or whatever.

408
00:23:35,461 --> 00:23:39,461
And then that just kept going and going
for five years and then they were like,

409
00:23:39,541 --> 00:23:43,131
all right, we need the whole thing in
three weeks or a month or whatever.

410
00:23:43,231 --> 00:23:46,194
So he wrote the whole thing
in three weeks, blind.

411
00:23:46,294 --> 00:23:53,384
And recorded it in three days, March
8-10 including a session for part of

412
00:23:53,384 --> 00:23:56,873
it with a string section of 26 players.

413
00:23:57,088 --> 00:24:00,517
So we're not talking like Kevin
Parker, Tame Impala, bedroom pop.

414
00:24:00,877 --> 00:24:04,411
I'll knock this whole shit out in
a weekend by myself type thing.

415
00:24:04,434 --> 00:24:08,674
There was a heavy degree of coordination
with the large studio involved.

416
00:24:08,684 --> 00:24:12,724
So it's like the more
detail you learn about that.

417
00:24:12,824 --> 00:24:15,315
The more insane, the whole thing becomes.

418
00:24:15,315 --> 00:24:19,105
And then you listen to it with that
in mind and it feels so fully realized

419
00:24:19,155 --> 00:24:23,195
and it's so utterly unique, nothing
sounded like it before I mean, it was

420
00:24:23,195 --> 00:24:28,385
like if aliens made blaxploitation a
little, so like maybe tangentially you

421
00:24:28,395 --> 00:24:33,205
hear strains of things, nothing sounded
like it, this weird mix of elements.

422
00:24:33,265 --> 00:24:36,855
And to this day, nothing
sounds like it since.

423
00:24:36,865 --> 00:24:37,415
So it's just.

424
00:24:37,515 --> 00:24:42,075
A remarkable achievement, to your
point, speaks to, the true genius

425
00:24:42,252 --> 00:24:45,812
that musicians are capable of,
especially up against pressures.

426
00:24:45,962 --> 00:24:48,732
Cliff: Getting people to record like that
is always ridiculous when I hear that.

427
00:24:48,732 --> 00:24:53,132
I can't get 26 adults to a dinner
given three weeks time, much less write

428
00:24:53,132 --> 00:24:57,072
and record things that I need them
to execute on in a short time span.

429
00:24:57,082 --> 00:24:58,092
It's truly incredible.

430
00:24:58,522 --> 00:25:01,878
But it's good to just
highlight and reinforce this

431
00:25:01,878 --> 00:25:03,908
was a cool thing on its own.

432
00:25:04,208 --> 00:25:05,878
Had no one ever cared.

433
00:25:06,168 --> 00:25:13,688
Past when it was released in 1973, but
this story is cool because basically

434
00:25:13,998 --> 00:25:19,708
despite Alain specifically never
really wanting to be super well known.

435
00:25:19,808 --> 00:25:23,878
He ended up doing a thing that had so
much impact down the road by people

436
00:25:23,878 --> 00:25:27,378
who would use technology to sample
music that wasn't even available

437
00:25:27,378 --> 00:25:28,698
at the time that this was written.

438
00:25:28,745 --> 00:25:31,025
And so, couldn't be conceptualized, right?

439
00:25:31,355 --> 00:25:37,465
But, We see that Alain was known
as Gogo for short he went by other

440
00:25:37,575 --> 00:25:42,298
monikers and names, I tried to figure
out why don't I know more about

441
00:25:42,298 --> 00:25:43,988
this guy, and part of it turns out

442
00:25:44,003 --> 00:25:45,803
Kyle: And why can't I more?

443
00:25:45,863 --> 00:25:46,790
Yeah.

444
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:49,550
Cliff: part of it, it turns out,
seems to be because he didn't

445
00:25:49,550 --> 00:25:51,530
want to be known for a while.

446
00:25:51,860 --> 00:25:56,150
Which just adds to not only the mystique
of the whole thing, but like, that's

447
00:25:56,150 --> 00:26:00,880
what makes it that much more surprising
and shocking that his particular

448
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:06,900
work here has gotten a second and
third life through primarily hip hop.

449
00:26:07,097 --> 00:26:07,417
Kyle: Yeah.

450
00:26:07,820 --> 00:26:11,490
It's also strange that he's not
more well known, he is in the last

451
00:26:11,490 --> 00:26:13,370
few years, and he passed away.

452
00:26:13,583 --> 00:26:15,883
last year in February of 2023.

453
00:26:15,983 --> 00:26:21,033
It is strange that he's not more
well known relative to the volume

454
00:26:21,033 --> 00:26:23,173
and type of output that he had.

455
00:26:23,273 --> 00:26:28,353
So like prior to the score work, he
was a side man and a composer primarily

456
00:26:28,353 --> 00:26:31,313
for Serge Gainsbourg, who was enormous.

457
00:26:31,413 --> 00:26:34,826
And then a number of
other European superstars.

458
00:26:34,926 --> 00:26:39,182
Who like, when I talk about cultural
immersion bit of all this, I clicked in

459
00:26:39,192 --> 00:26:43,392
on some of the names that I'd never heard
of people that he wrote for, and these

460
00:26:43,392 --> 00:26:48,458
were like some of the biggest artists of
the 20th century globally, and they were

461
00:26:48,458 --> 00:26:50,278
names that were totally unfamiliar to me.

462
00:26:50,308 --> 00:26:55,158
So like he had a huge career a
bit in obscurity as a songwriter.

463
00:26:55,168 --> 00:26:57,908
He won the Eurovision
contest with a song he wrote.

464
00:26:58,058 --> 00:27:02,678
And I think I couldn't find a like
full discography anywhere, but I,

465
00:27:02,722 --> 00:27:06,572
I think he wrote somewhere in the
neighborhood of like hundreds of songs

466
00:27:06,672 --> 00:27:07,672
Cliff: Yeah, seems like it.

467
00:27:07,772 --> 00:27:10,262
Kyle: in the like French
pop, jazz, whatever.

468
00:27:10,272 --> 00:27:13,912
He released a solo jazz album, you
know, and this is all prior to the

469
00:27:13,922 --> 00:27:17,385
mid sixties in his first 35 years.

470
00:27:17,399 --> 00:27:21,269
Or so of life before this kind of
work even really started happening.

471
00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:23,822
So, Another pair of a lot
of Marvin Gaye in that way.

472
00:27:23,929 --> 00:27:27,825
long and deep career already before
this little thing even happened.

473
00:27:27,925 --> 00:27:32,305
Cliff: I want to talk more about the
specifics of not only how all this

474
00:27:32,305 --> 00:27:35,864
stuff got sampled, but then all of
its sort of musical siblings and

475
00:27:35,864 --> 00:27:37,364
all the cool stuff to look out for.

476
00:27:37,624 --> 00:27:41,524
But being a little meta here, we've
been trying to add some structure

477
00:27:41,784 --> 00:27:46,377
to our episodes in the sense of we
have a few kind of tent poles where

478
00:27:46,377 --> 00:27:51,627
we stop and look at what's a good
way to just let this album hit you.

479
00:27:51,963 --> 00:27:56,863
we've talked a little bit more about
Our experiences both intentional and

480
00:27:56,863 --> 00:28:01,173
sort of unintentional in experiencing
the music that we're listening to For

481
00:28:01,173 --> 00:28:04,753
the episode whether it's in prep or
whether it's hit us in a different way

482
00:28:04,753 --> 00:28:08,501
at a different time Well before know,
we ever start talking about it so we

483
00:28:08,501 --> 00:28:14,131
always make sure and cover how to take
it in, but tune in for those key moments.

484
00:28:14,141 --> 00:28:18,127
So really kind of guiding you through
the first couple of times you listen

485
00:28:18,127 --> 00:28:21,045
to a new piece of music, especially
if you've never heard it before.

486
00:28:21,505 --> 00:28:22,585
So we talked.

487
00:28:22,755 --> 00:28:27,675
Already about the kind of association
with the movie, which is a, an aspect that

488
00:28:27,675 --> 00:28:31,085
we don't always get to bring into play
honestly for the most part we're we're

489
00:28:31,309 --> 00:28:36,959
not even huge on watching music videos a
lot of the time As some sort of additive

490
00:28:36,959 --> 00:28:41,014
or contextual bit to understanding
an album probably because there's Not

491
00:28:41,014 --> 00:28:42,904
usually video for all the songs anyway.

492
00:28:43,310 --> 00:28:48,780
so we've got some there, but I wanted
to just say like really clearly,

493
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,750
yeah, this is a hundred percent,
a great active listen if you're

494
00:28:52,750 --> 00:28:57,964
ready for the vibe, but it's also a
really, really, really good passive.

495
00:28:57,964 --> 00:29:01,694
Listen, it is a very good, put
it on in the background, but

496
00:29:01,714 --> 00:29:03,304
make sure you turn it up enough.

497
00:29:03,364 --> 00:29:09,974
To where you can catch stuff record
it's not dense or full or in the kind of

498
00:29:09,984 --> 00:29:15,374
modern Mastering term of this it's not
loud the way that a lot of other records

499
00:29:15,374 --> 00:29:19,564
are And so there's space in there for you
to like hear yourself think while you're

500
00:29:19,564 --> 00:29:23,499
still listening to the record and you
can do you know You can do other stuff.

501
00:29:23,499 --> 00:29:25,799
It's a great smoke session record.

502
00:29:26,049 --> 00:29:29,789
I mean, honestly, if you just want to
kind of blow anybody's lid the next time

503
00:29:30,049 --> 00:29:33,509
you're hanging out and smoking a joint
with your friends, just put on this

504
00:29:33,509 --> 00:29:37,868
record and you will either be ridiculed
by people who don't understand music

505
00:29:37,868 --> 00:29:42,068
as well as you or lauded by the people
that do mess the way everybody wants

506
00:29:42,068 --> 00:29:43,368
to feel when they get past the joint.

507
00:29:43,403 --> 00:29:46,593
Kyle: It's a, for sure, like
leather jacket moment in that way.

508
00:29:46,663 --> 00:29:50,689
Yeah, we went over to her apartment and

509
00:29:50,834 --> 00:29:51,744
Cliff: Now, her loft.

510
00:29:51,779 --> 00:29:52,739
Kyle: yeah, her loft.

511
00:29:53,089 --> 00:29:57,894
And she had all these cool, all these
cool pieces of art on the wall and

512
00:29:57,894 --> 00:30:05,244
we were hanging out drinking wine and
she put on the Soundtrack to a french

513
00:30:05,254 --> 00:30:10,434
sci fi film from the 70s and was
explaining how it won top prize at con

514
00:30:10,434 --> 00:30:16,631
that year and it was an allegory for
fascism or coexistence among people.

515
00:30:16,717 --> 00:30:20,637
Anyway she's got a boyfriend,
but I her again soon.

516
00:30:20,637 --> 00:30:22,726
She

517
00:30:22,826 --> 00:30:24,146
Cliff: He's in finance.

518
00:30:24,281 --> 00:30:24,621
Kyle: me a little.

519
00:30:24,621 --> 00:30:27,428
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

520
00:30:27,428 --> 00:30:30,158
He's neither fantastic
nor helping the planet.

521
00:30:30,371 --> 00:30:31,401
His name's Todd.

522
00:30:32,415 --> 00:30:35,475
Cliff: yeah, leaving Brad aside,
who would never like this record.

523
00:30:35,885 --> 00:30:38,195
we, it's good to be really
straightforward, especially with a

524
00:30:38,195 --> 00:30:40,495
good, like a good passive listen.

525
00:30:40,701 --> 00:30:43,951
Because everything we talk
about has some aspect of it.

526
00:30:43,981 --> 00:30:47,681
That's a good active listen, but
not all of them will vibe with

527
00:30:47,711 --> 00:30:49,304
you the way that this one will.

528
00:30:49,724 --> 00:30:54,104
I mean you're gonna you're gonna do
that like low key slow head nod thing

529
00:30:54,134 --> 00:30:57,104
when you're not paying attention
Because you're just gonna catch it.

530
00:30:57,394 --> 00:30:59,074
There's gonna be a couple
of times that make you go.

531
00:30:59,074 --> 00:31:03,664
Oh shit something will roll in that'll
surprise you and it just sounds right

532
00:31:03,974 --> 00:31:07,174
And that's just because that's the
feeling of listening to good music

533
00:31:07,194 --> 00:31:11,614
my friend It just so happens that it
comes from a 73 french jazz album.

534
00:31:11,642 --> 00:31:12,542
That's about a movie

535
00:31:12,732 --> 00:31:18,882
Kyle: And I'll say it's the month of
May weather-wise you should have decent

536
00:31:19,032 --> 00:31:24,092
environmental context around you, it's as
good a time as any to pick up this record.

537
00:31:24,462 --> 00:31:29,802
So when we say passive listen, a lot
of times that could mean one time and

538
00:31:29,802 --> 00:31:33,182
then it's on a playlist with a bunch
of other albums you've been meaning to

539
00:31:33,182 --> 00:31:35,962
listen to and you go into the next thing.

540
00:31:36,132 --> 00:31:38,992
This is a you can leave it on all day.

541
00:31:38,992 --> 00:31:42,622
album So if it's a nice Saturday and
you open all your doors and windows and

542
00:31:42,622 --> 00:31:46,572
you're letting fresh air in, cleaning
the house, whatever, play it somewhere

543
00:31:46,572 --> 00:31:51,262
centrally and get some fresh air, but
be in the safety of your own home too.

544
00:31:51,262 --> 00:31:54,722
And, it's so I don't necessarily
want to call it atmospheric.

545
00:31:54,932 --> 00:31:58,382
It has ethereal moments, but
for a soundtrack, especially it

546
00:31:58,382 --> 00:32:00,862
is very present and rhythmic.

547
00:32:00,962 --> 00:32:02,702
But the movie.

548
00:32:02,832 --> 00:32:04,622
is about a a planet.

549
00:32:04,682 --> 00:32:07,202
It's about an environment and
the animation style of the film

550
00:32:07,222 --> 00:32:09,302
is very environment focused.

551
00:32:09,682 --> 00:32:15,232
It's a lot of stills of renaissance
type quality scenery contrast that with

552
00:32:15,232 --> 00:32:18,975
like a Disney where it's way more fluid
animation, way more focused on the

553
00:32:18,975 --> 00:32:20,555
character in the center of the frame.

554
00:32:20,609 --> 00:32:23,522
there's a lot of beauty and
focus on the environment and

555
00:32:23,522 --> 00:32:25,040
the look and feel of the thing.

556
00:32:25,054 --> 00:32:26,454
And that's reflected in the music.

557
00:32:26,907 --> 00:32:30,857
let it physically fill your
environment on a Saturday or something.

558
00:32:30,857 --> 00:32:32,937
I can't recommend that highly enough.

559
00:32:33,104 --> 00:32:37,691
if you like Seth Rogen's houseplant
playlist and you are the person with

560
00:32:37,701 --> 00:32:43,005
the like custom clay ashtray type of
thing, some of it's sativa, some of it's

561
00:32:43,015 --> 00:32:46,355
indica houseplant playlist type material.

562
00:32:46,505 --> 00:32:47,735
So try to enjoy it in that way.

563
00:32:47,835 --> 00:32:51,555
Cliff: The way you're talking about
Taking care of your aesthetics, listening

564
00:32:51,555 --> 00:32:55,315
to this record the same way they,
they cared a lot about the aesthetics

565
00:32:55,315 --> 00:32:57,242
and the visual style of this film.

566
00:32:57,382 --> 00:33:02,452
you mentioned, the animation style
is and was unique even at that time.

567
00:33:02,782 --> 00:33:07,102
those were chosen very intentionally
to feel and look a certain way.

568
00:33:07,202 --> 00:33:10,472
So that's a, yeah, that's a cool
takeaway, honestly, but that's

569
00:33:10,672 --> 00:33:11,822
a really good way of putting it.

570
00:33:12,162 --> 00:33:16,652
It's a great background record you
can put on loud, but vibe check, take

571
00:33:16,652 --> 00:33:20,382
care of the area that's around you
and give it some good feel so you can

572
00:33:20,382 --> 00:33:22,122
really draw what's being put down here,

573
00:33:22,222 --> 00:33:24,602
Kyle: So musically, what.

574
00:33:24,702 --> 00:33:28,342
I always look to you for the,
the technical, literal end of

575
00:33:28,342 --> 00:33:32,689
things, tonally, musically, vibe
wise, whatever what surprised you?

576
00:33:32,739 --> 00:33:35,532
What were the ones that
perked your antenna up?

577
00:33:35,632 --> 00:33:39,912
Cliff: A couple of main things,
which I think will contribute to the

578
00:33:40,202 --> 00:33:43,732
sample ability of this thing that
we'll talk about some more as well.

579
00:33:43,946 --> 00:33:48,096
one is the way that, uh, especially
the way the tracks are laid out, you

580
00:33:48,096 --> 00:33:51,222
know, as you already mentioned, a lot
of them are kind of shorter, and they're

581
00:33:51,295 --> 00:33:55,055
chronologically related to how they're
coming out in the movie, but you've

582
00:33:55,055 --> 00:34:00,779
got kind of a one minute track that
sort of noisy builds up on the way in.

583
00:34:01,229 --> 00:34:06,839
And then it hits that second track and it
feels like the groove drops like a hammer.

584
00:34:06,986 --> 00:34:14,471
The way you sort of shift from anxious to
rhythmic is noted, As always can't believe

585
00:34:14,471 --> 00:34:18,689
I'm going to bring out this reference,
but the thing that made me feel and think

586
00:34:18,699 --> 00:34:23,759
about especially the first time I noticed
how it would go from noisy interlude

587
00:34:23,789 --> 00:34:26,649
to aggressive, like slow backbeat.

588
00:34:26,749 --> 00:34:31,289
I know I made you listen to this back in
the day, but Buried Insides Chronoclast.

589
00:34:31,404 --> 00:34:33,064
Kyle: Oh, man, deep.

590
00:34:33,064 --> 00:34:35,274
I haven't about that
record in a long time.

591
00:34:35,549 --> 00:34:38,959
Cliff: it's so it's basically a kind of.

592
00:34:39,059 --> 00:34:42,817
It's an atmospheric black metal album,
we'll just say it that way, but they

593
00:34:42,817 --> 00:34:47,147
have this sense of they're doing songs
and they're doing almost literally

594
00:34:47,147 --> 00:34:53,582
interludes in between them but The
interlude is basically has a beat and a

595
00:34:53,582 --> 00:35:00,342
rhythm that's at a really similar tempo
to the main motifs in this record in

596
00:35:00,352 --> 00:35:04,112
the way that it just kind of like snaps
you back into it really fast Even when

597
00:35:04,112 --> 00:35:08,121
the rhythm didn't guide you there just
a few seconds before kind of reminded

598
00:35:08,121 --> 00:35:13,011
me of that and it It was one of those
moments where sometimes the way that music

599
00:35:13,011 --> 00:35:15,882
surprises me just makes me laugh out loud.

600
00:35:16,412 --> 00:35:17,602
And that was one of them.

601
00:35:17,612 --> 00:35:20,432
It was just like, Oh,
that's, but that's so good.

602
00:35:20,532 --> 00:35:21,722
That feels so good.

603
00:35:21,732 --> 00:35:24,212
The way that it built up,
went in a different direction

604
00:35:24,212 --> 00:35:25,632
and then dropped you back in.

605
00:35:26,084 --> 00:35:28,284
that's part of how, you know, it's good.

606
00:35:28,682 --> 00:35:31,962
And then before long, you're, you're
humming that to yourself anyway.

607
00:35:32,112 --> 00:35:34,502
So to feel that backbeat come in.

608
00:35:34,822 --> 00:35:37,062
And hit so strong was awesome.

609
00:35:37,439 --> 00:35:42,591
The second thing that stood out that
was sort of related to that on Mira at

610
00:35:42,591 --> 00:35:47,800
tear, there is this guitar work in the
background and funk guitar being a part

611
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:52,583
of jazz here is we could probably spend an
episode on that in and of itself, right?

612
00:35:52,583 --> 00:35:56,083
But like one of the cool things
to know here is this is ostensibly

613
00:35:56,083 --> 00:35:58,123
a French jazz record, but it's.

614
00:35:58,250 --> 00:36:03,313
there's funk guitar everywhere, really
clearly, really easy to hear it's not

615
00:36:03,323 --> 00:36:08,010
subtle at all that they're aping that
uh, and we could probably talk about

616
00:36:08,070 --> 00:36:13,380
um, how French jazz uh, was probably
aping things the same way that British

617
00:36:13,380 --> 00:36:15,400
blues was back in the seventies.

618
00:36:15,465 --> 00:36:18,505
In the sense of they're sort of making
caricatures of a culture that they're

619
00:36:18,515 --> 00:36:21,505
actually not a part of, but it's cool
enough that they want to borrow it.

620
00:36:21,505 --> 00:36:25,115
and so, while everyone is welcome under
this tent I think that's a good way

621
00:36:25,115 --> 00:36:31,015
to think about why funk was so heavily
intertwined with what's supposed to be

622
00:36:31,015 --> 00:36:33,105
sort of jazz or soundtrack y music here.

623
00:36:33,148 --> 00:36:34,908
So they're approximating something.

624
00:36:34,949 --> 00:36:39,692
But it works and part of why it works,
especially on, on Mira Eterra, the thing

625
00:36:39,692 --> 00:36:45,122
that stood out to me was they do some sort
of syncopation with the rhythm guitar.

626
00:36:45,222 --> 00:36:49,852
And again, I think this is what will lead
us into the sampling talk more, but they

627
00:36:49,852 --> 00:36:56,032
play with rhythm really subtly here in
both the guitar and in a couple of the

628
00:36:56,032 --> 00:37:02,357
different instruments as well, in a way
that really lends itself not only to Good

629
00:37:02,357 --> 00:37:08,427
repetition but the actual composition
and arrangement of motifs over a long

630
00:37:08,427 --> 00:37:15,167
period of time, like they are reusing
really simple ideas and then playing with

631
00:37:15,187 --> 00:37:20,297
or reversing or spreading out the rhythm
around it to give it a different feeling.

632
00:37:20,407 --> 00:37:24,577
And it's again, without a kind of
better reference for what that means.

633
00:37:24,577 --> 00:37:28,787
Like it's one of the reasons I like the
band between the buried in me the drummer,

634
00:37:28,817 --> 00:37:37,727
Blake he takes one riff and just shifts
the rhythm and the emphasis or makes a

635
00:37:37,727 --> 00:37:41,787
syncopated version and just shifts between
those really quickly and goes back and

636
00:37:41,787 --> 00:37:45,009
forth and it makes everything feel new.

637
00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:49,819
And then when you bring it back later,
You can bring it back in 80 different

638
00:37:49,829 --> 00:37:53,639
ways because you've already played it all
those different ways And it creates like

639
00:37:53,639 --> 00:38:00,339
a memorability out of a simple Like melody
in a way that works super well here so

640
00:38:00,555 --> 00:38:04,225
those were kind of like the things that
hit me and then what kept surprising me

641
00:38:04,225 --> 00:38:08,550
was That those things just kept happening
we would go in one direction and then

642
00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:12,497
drop back into the beat But then the beat
would kind of syncopate or shift around

643
00:38:12,497 --> 00:38:14,737
a little bit and then it would take you
off in a different direction And then

644
00:38:14,737 --> 00:38:16,437
you'd snap back to something else again

645
00:38:16,537 --> 00:38:20,787
Kyle: We also talked about that in the
Meshuggah episode, and I was one of

646
00:38:20,787 --> 00:38:26,007
those people that tried to make more
of what there is to get about Meshuggah

647
00:38:26,057 --> 00:38:28,267
than what those guys are going for.

648
00:38:28,359 --> 00:38:33,355
Everything wrapping around 4 all the time
is the big trick with Meshuggah, and I

649
00:38:33,495 --> 00:38:38,955
think there's a version of that here,
and it's not like the alternating time

650
00:38:38,955 --> 00:38:41,657
signature Berkeley College type of thing.

651
00:38:41,736 --> 00:38:47,556
it's the kind of shift that, comes
naturally when you try to play

652
00:38:47,556 --> 00:38:49,686
it to just find different feels.

653
00:38:50,176 --> 00:38:53,921
And then you only realize it's
like a thing when you try to notate

654
00:38:53,921 --> 00:38:54,931
it, you're like, Oh, it's this.

655
00:38:54,931 --> 00:38:58,311
And then it's this on the
16th and then whatever.

656
00:38:58,739 --> 00:39:03,761
which I, I appreciate it as a person that
like, doesn't do any of that, but I I know

657
00:39:03,761 --> 00:39:05,561
it's like the Nick Cannon drum line thing.

658
00:39:05,571 --> 00:39:09,071
I could do a rhythm or a
syncopation in my head.

659
00:39:09,171 --> 00:39:10,261
And it's like a thing.

660
00:39:10,361 --> 00:39:11,551
And I know it's cool.

661
00:39:11,651 --> 00:39:13,751
And maybe it's smart and maybe
it's not, but I don't know

662
00:39:13,751 --> 00:39:15,051
how to tell the difference.

663
00:39:15,151 --> 00:39:19,021
So I'm in a very Cro Magnon way
picking up what you're putting down.

664
00:39:19,121 --> 00:39:22,071
Cliff: We both just saw the callus
dalboys together we can both hold

665
00:39:22,071 --> 00:39:23,541
the backbeat we're good to go

666
00:39:24,827 --> 00:39:30,880
Kyle: People, uh, speaking of, pulling the
rhythm into a million different fragments.

667
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,010
It was cool.

668
00:39:32,010 --> 00:39:35,120
It was one of the coolest, weirdest
bands I've seen in a minute.

669
00:39:35,220 --> 00:39:41,350
And cool, cool that we just did a,
triple combo invocation of three weird

670
00:39:41,350 --> 00:39:43,810
metal bands in the French jazz episode.

671
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:48,180
Cliff: Sorry goes to classical
music class once ends up this

672
00:39:48,602 --> 00:39:52,377
Kyle: I mean, I guess, yeah, I guess if
you like, if you like the rhythmic aspect

673
00:39:52,837 --> 00:39:57,947
of all this, go in those directions where
people are pulling groove against, chops.

674
00:39:58,047 --> 00:40:02,007
Cliff: Yeah, and even across those
bands and this record though, I think

675
00:40:02,317 --> 00:40:05,797
a way to talk about it, even if these
bands wouldn't say it the same way,

676
00:40:06,087 --> 00:40:08,427
is all of this music is arranged.

677
00:40:08,527 --> 00:40:12,767
I, and that, and that's not
to shortcut any other form of

678
00:40:12,797 --> 00:40:14,417
music writing, anything, right?

679
00:40:14,427 --> 00:40:19,497
There's a lot and there's a lot of magic
in just, we're just doing the thing, it's

680
00:40:19,517 --> 00:40:24,197
live, this is how it feels, this is how
it works, in, in just executing until

681
00:40:24,197 --> 00:40:28,477
you get to the right place, but there's
always a kind of subsection of music,

682
00:40:28,477 --> 00:40:32,687
especially the more complex you can get
with metal, jazz, and other things like

683
00:40:32,687 --> 00:40:37,352
that, where you can tell that someone has
looked at it, it's live, As if it were on

684
00:40:37,352 --> 00:40:42,864
a spreadsheet and went Hmm, I'm going to
move these pieces around on purpose now.

685
00:40:43,304 --> 00:40:46,054
And some people know what
they're doing with that.

686
00:40:46,304 --> 00:40:52,904
And when they do it well, it shifts
things into, they begin to mess with your

687
00:40:53,114 --> 00:40:56,644
sense of the time that you're spending.

688
00:40:57,074 --> 00:41:02,314
listening to the music, which gives you
a feeling that's significantly different

689
00:41:02,644 --> 00:41:04,664
than other types of music, I think.

690
00:41:04,664 --> 00:41:06,744
And it works really well here.

691
00:41:07,104 --> 00:41:10,282
because you're, you're going
in nearly concentric circles.

692
00:41:10,282 --> 00:41:13,919
Like actually one way I thought about
describing it was, you know, those

693
00:41:13,919 --> 00:41:18,013
little geometric drawing machines
that'll draw a circle and then you

694
00:41:18,033 --> 00:41:20,823
make one small shift in it and it
starts drawing a slightly different

695
00:41:20,823 --> 00:41:22,733
shape on top of it, but it's sort

696
00:41:23,278 --> 00:41:25,118
Kyle: dad

697
00:41:25,273 --> 00:41:26,923
Cliff: Aspirograph is a great example,

698
00:41:27,098 --> 00:41:27,968
Kyle: of a toddler here.

699
00:41:29,631 --> 00:41:34,255
Cliff: Glad to hear they're still cool,
but the way that you're basically still

700
00:41:34,265 --> 00:41:38,555
operating off of the same sort of orbit
or axis or whatever But you're slightly

701
00:41:38,555 --> 00:41:42,515
changing something and at first you're
doing that and you're just like well,

702
00:41:42,658 --> 00:41:47,878
okay Well, I just sort of drew three
ugly circles beside each other cool job

703
00:41:48,231 --> 00:41:52,091
Uh, but if you keep going eventually
you end up with something that's like

704
00:41:52,101 --> 00:41:57,191
wildly complex And it's not the thing
that you intended to make necessarily

705
00:41:57,451 --> 00:42:01,941
But you made little tiny tweaks You As
the machine kept running and you ended

706
00:42:01,941 --> 00:42:03,781
up with this big kind of complex thing.

707
00:42:04,071 --> 00:42:07,596
And whether you knew it or not, when you
started, you made something pretty cool.

708
00:42:07,696 --> 00:42:11,526
It's fun to look at and interesting
and would be hard to create from

709
00:42:11,526 --> 00:42:13,046
scratch with intention again.

710
00:42:13,406 --> 00:42:18,576
this just feels like that because
of how specifically it again

711
00:42:18,586 --> 00:42:21,466
uses like a handful of motifs.

712
00:42:21,916 --> 00:42:27,416
Like a handful of basic melodies
or rhythmic lines or string parts.

713
00:42:27,816 --> 00:42:31,456
And for the most part, it's just, I
mean, I would almost think of it as

714
00:42:31,456 --> 00:42:35,536
like a bucket of five to 10 different
things that are happening on this record.

715
00:42:35,846 --> 00:42:41,326
And then they get sequenced together
differently over time, iterated on,

716
00:42:41,416 --> 00:42:48,136
repeated, returned to or in other
cases they will, take the same.

717
00:42:48,146 --> 00:42:53,686
If you take de harmonization one and
generic, you'll notice that the way

718
00:42:53,696 --> 00:42:58,466
both songs start, the same underlying
melody on the first bar, but the

719
00:42:58,466 --> 00:43:00,786
second bar, it just changes slightly.

720
00:43:00,886 --> 00:43:04,416
Otherwise it would be indistinguishable
from the track before it, but it

721
00:43:04,416 --> 00:43:08,266
just like changes two or three notes
out of that second bar, then goes

722
00:43:08,266 --> 00:43:12,366
back to repeating the pre like it's
making subtle shifts over time in a

723
00:43:12,366 --> 00:43:14,694
way that you can sort of trace, but.

724
00:43:14,794 --> 00:43:20,854
That I think is why it's so inherently
well designed to be picked up and

725
00:43:20,854 --> 00:43:26,261
sampled because now there's Basically,
instead of there being 800 parts to

726
00:43:26,261 --> 00:43:31,931
a song to sample, there's 8 parts to
a song that have 10 variations each.

727
00:43:31,990 --> 00:43:36,870
And so anybody who picks it up
automatically gets a song that sounds

728
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,960
different or a hook that sounds
different than anyone else who might

729
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:42,550
have sampled the exact same song.

730
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:47,600
So now this album is going to
make decades worth of hip hop.

731
00:43:47,700 --> 00:43:51,460
Kyle: I like a couple
of things that you said.

732
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:56,700
One, in contrasting to those two tracks,
one of the things that I kept thinking

733
00:43:56,700 --> 00:44:02,080
was Okay, clearly it's all coming from
the same arpeggio or the same bass

734
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,270
idea, which is a jazz thing, right?

735
00:44:04,270 --> 00:44:06,230
It's, I guess that's what modal is.

736
00:44:06,570 --> 00:44:08,240
Essentially, this is
like a version of that.

737
00:44:08,647 --> 00:44:12,222
But how elastic one idea can be.

738
00:44:12,482 --> 00:44:15,792
And like you talked about it
being fractal and geometric.

739
00:44:16,102 --> 00:44:21,922
There was another episode where you
mentioned Tom Holland's Spider Man and Dr.

740
00:44:21,922 --> 00:44:27,142
Strange being on top of the train and
the world opening up fractally like that.

741
00:44:27,312 --> 00:44:30,099
So interesting to invoke that

742
00:44:30,399 --> 00:44:31,719
Cliff: The Mirror Dimension, bro.

743
00:44:32,054 --> 00:44:33,224
Kyle: the mirror dimension.

744
00:44:33,324 --> 00:44:37,864
So I thought about that a lot with the
melody, how fractal the melody was and

745
00:44:37,864 --> 00:44:43,594
just, you can sit and pontificate about
the note C or whatever the base note of

746
00:44:43,594 --> 00:44:48,494
this thing is, how much you can stretch
that in a million different directions

747
00:44:48,594 --> 00:44:53,604
and just marvel at the miracle of
repetition or a thing against a different

748
00:44:53,604 --> 00:44:59,388
counterpart note to note or measure
like that's a Very basic musical idea.

749
00:44:59,488 --> 00:45:03,248
But if you are a non musical person,
this is a really cool, the repetition

750
00:45:03,258 --> 00:45:07,258
and arpeggiation on this thing
is simple enough and repetitive

751
00:45:07,258 --> 00:45:10,548
enough that it lets you really
appreciate that without being boring.

752
00:45:10,648 --> 00:45:11,958
In fact, quite the opposite.

753
00:45:12,122 --> 00:45:13,612
it's very exciting the whole time.

754
00:45:13,712 --> 00:45:17,538
The second thing is you talked to someone
that like laying it out on a spreadsheet

755
00:45:17,539 --> 00:45:20,219
thing, that sort of visual block idea.

756
00:45:20,709 --> 00:45:25,059
And of course that would lend itself
to hip hop and sampling because like,

757
00:45:25,069 --> 00:45:30,009
think about an MPC and when it's going
through the 16 buttons or whatever.

758
00:45:30,158 --> 00:45:35,268
And the light's going and it's like a
Simon Says or whatever that toy was.

759
00:45:35,368 --> 00:45:38,880
Like, that's just, you're
arranging the, beats in a measure.

760
00:45:39,380 --> 00:45:42,630
And finally with technology,
we had a way to visualize that.

761
00:45:42,670 --> 00:45:47,150
So it's a cool, in the ways that we
were talking about with Tangerine Dream

762
00:45:47,330 --> 00:45:51,830
a long while back, where they were
starting to use technology less visually

763
00:45:52,260 --> 00:45:54,718
to hit some of those, fractalizations.

764
00:45:55,068 --> 00:45:57,968
You have another early sort of
analog example here that would lend

765
00:45:57,968 --> 00:45:59,478
itself to the rhythms of hip hop.

766
00:45:59,628 --> 00:46:00,948
So just very cool.

767
00:46:01,438 --> 00:46:06,632
in addition to celebrating black music as
the Rosetta Stone of everything being like

768
00:46:06,632 --> 00:46:12,496
a central theme of this podcast over the
years, the line from music concrete in the

769
00:46:12,496 --> 00:46:17,936
forties and fifties and the Stockhausen
school and all that going into Sampling

770
00:46:17,966 --> 00:46:22,746
and the interplay between live instruments
and especially like funk, rhythmic type

771
00:46:22,746 --> 00:46:26,736
stuff and technology all the way through
to sampling, that's probably the richest

772
00:46:26,736 --> 00:46:32,425
fountain for like   every fruit of music
that's ever been cool comes off of that

773
00:46:32,435 --> 00:46:36,265
vine in some way like you're no more than
three degrees from it at any given point.

774
00:46:36,660 --> 00:46:40,110
is interesting how much ground
we've been able to cover and still

775
00:46:40,130 --> 00:46:43,427
come back to that over and over
and over again on this podcast.

776
00:46:43,527 --> 00:46:46,127
Cliff: It is the undeniable
and inevitable truth.

777
00:46:46,157 --> 00:46:49,487
So we would just be pretending we
didn't call it out all the time.

778
00:46:49,587 --> 00:46:53,977
Relative to what we were just talking
about, we, so we also mentioned those

779
00:46:54,157 --> 00:46:56,047
kind of tent poles for ways to listen.

780
00:46:56,317 --> 00:46:59,687
So let's just talk about that really
briefly, because the other thing we

781
00:46:59,687 --> 00:47:03,787
like to do is, okay, once you've, once
you've heard it and experienced it.

782
00:47:03,887 --> 00:47:08,127
Once or twice maybe especially here with
the movie once if you want to go deeper

783
00:47:08,287 --> 00:47:12,847
and you want to really like Listen to
the music on purpose to learn things to

784
00:47:12,847 --> 00:47:18,266
feel things whatever But it's kind of
like your primary activity to consume the

785
00:47:18,266 --> 00:47:22,696
music and pay attention to it and learn
from it we like to talk about some things

786
00:47:22,706 --> 00:47:27,473
that you can then focus on and isolate
sort of as you know, you can think of

787
00:47:27,473 --> 00:47:32,733
it as like when you're meditating, it's
returning to your breath, it's visualizing

788
00:47:32,793 --> 00:47:35,263
it's a framework to help you channel.

789
00:47:35,363 --> 00:47:39,003
The energy that you have and sort of
get the thing that you're thinking

790
00:47:39,003 --> 00:47:41,181
about back out of that experience.

791
00:47:41,561 --> 00:47:46,671
And so we give you some things to focus
on or isolate that won't take up so much

792
00:47:46,671 --> 00:47:51,671
of your brain uh, and won't take you
off the music, but tunes you in enough.

793
00:47:52,101 --> 00:47:57,341
To where you are paying attention and
not drifting and so one of those then

794
00:47:57,351 --> 00:48:01,751
relative to everything that we just
talked about is paying attention to what

795
00:48:01,751 --> 00:48:04,581
is repeating Versus what is changing?

796
00:48:04,681 --> 00:48:08,444
Just simply I think noting Uh,
you don't have to follow it.

797
00:48:08,444 --> 00:48:11,334
You don't have to think about it a
ton, but just sort of noting, you

798
00:48:11,334 --> 00:48:15,690
know, like I was just mentioning the,
Disharmonization and, uh, Generique,

799
00:48:15,930 --> 00:48:19,403
going into both of those, paying
attention to the fact that they sound

800
00:48:19,413 --> 00:48:23,983
really similar, but what part of it is
actually different than what I just heard?

801
00:48:24,296 --> 00:48:27,666
And just giving yourself a moment
of reflecting I think that's really

802
00:48:27,666 --> 00:48:30,056
helpful here in a cool exercise.

803
00:48:30,166 --> 00:48:33,943
because maybe it's, it's obvious, but
it's worth saying like when you are

804
00:48:33,943 --> 00:48:40,036
reflecting on music relative to what's
changing, you're also sort of using a

805
00:48:40,036 --> 00:48:43,336
little bit of your memory and you're
going to have to pay a little bit of

806
00:48:43,336 --> 00:48:47,266
attention to what you're listening to in
order to do this thought exercise at all.

807
00:48:47,366 --> 00:48:49,986
And so it's a cool way to focus in.

808
00:48:50,086 --> 00:48:51,946
And notice things.

809
00:48:52,406 --> 00:48:57,666
And then you'll start to, I think,
notice as well when you do that,

810
00:48:57,676 --> 00:49:00,616
the way that the music progresses.

811
00:49:00,906 --> 00:49:05,646
And it tunes you into the intentional
arrangement and composition

812
00:49:05,656 --> 00:49:06,896
that we were just talking about.

813
00:49:07,116 --> 00:49:11,073
None of us like, Me or kyle
included we're fucking dummies man.

814
00:49:11,073 --> 00:49:16,353
We're not smart enough to understand
what You know endlessly talented

815
00:49:16,353 --> 00:49:20,963
french jazz composer was thinking
doing trying to do whatever okay But

816
00:49:20,963 --> 00:49:24,163
that's never the exercise What we're
trying to do is understand it as best

817
00:49:24,163 --> 00:49:26,293
we can and have an experience with it.

818
00:49:26,543 --> 00:49:32,753
And so that's A layman's way, I think, of
tuning into arrangement and composition,

819
00:49:32,809 --> 00:49:36,409
just sort of paying attention to what's
staying and what's coming and going,

820
00:49:36,699 --> 00:49:40,849
noticing that a little bit more, and
then letting yourself return to it later

821
00:49:40,849 --> 00:49:45,479
when you notice something has come back
or is similar to what you heard before.

822
00:49:45,643 --> 00:49:48,843
All of those are just really cool
ways to get in deep with the record.

823
00:49:49,233 --> 00:49:54,233
And I can tell you with certainty,
that is exactly the exercise that's

824
00:49:54,243 --> 00:49:56,803
being done when this gets picked apart.

825
00:49:57,816 --> 00:50:06,109
Kyle: Yeah, and I would say as somebody
who's never really played and, whose sort

826
00:50:06,109 --> 00:50:12,089
of default mode structurally is verse,
chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus,

827
00:50:12,129 --> 00:50:14,749
exit, three minute rock and roll song.

828
00:50:14,899 --> 00:50:18,799
What you have here is a great teaching
tool that's different than that,

829
00:50:18,999 --> 00:50:23,119
and it's different from jazz in
that it's taken idea and improvise

830
00:50:23,369 --> 00:50:25,009
in whatever different directions.

831
00:50:25,109 --> 00:50:30,059
But it can help train you to start
thinking about changes in music in

832
00:50:30,059 --> 00:50:33,729
general, like going part to part or
contrasting different parts against

833
00:50:33,729 --> 00:50:39,139
each other within a song or across an
album and how they create movement.

834
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:43,103
In your mind, the emotions that come
from listening to music come from

835
00:50:43,543 --> 00:50:48,663
the changes, as much as, or more than
they come intra part, you hear a riff

836
00:50:48,703 --> 00:50:50,733
or a tone or whatever that you like.

837
00:50:50,883 --> 00:50:54,003
And it helps you create
narrative or story from mood.

838
00:50:54,136 --> 00:50:56,685
musical movement becomes
lyrical in that way.

839
00:50:56,695 --> 00:51:01,019
So like, Listening to composed
instrumental music with no words to tell

840
00:51:01,019 --> 00:51:05,459
you any story, is a good way to go back
and like, maybe you appreciate a really

841
00:51:05,459 --> 00:51:08,019
well crafted, Bob Dylan song or whatever.

842
00:51:08,409 --> 00:51:11,015
And when you return to the
things that you, where you

843
00:51:11,015 --> 00:51:12,501
think you want to know more.

844
00:51:12,525 --> 00:51:16,165
Cliff: It's also a fun exercise,
related to that again, you have to

845
00:51:16,165 --> 00:51:20,885
have seen the movie at least once to
get the vibe of it, but you can start

846
00:51:20,895 --> 00:51:28,655
to discern music that has a sort of
related on screen action to it versus

847
00:51:28,665 --> 00:51:34,546
music that is sort of the backing
while a thing is generally happening.

848
00:51:34,976 --> 00:51:39,816
you'll start to notice some of
the very particular and noticeable

849
00:51:39,836 --> 00:51:45,076
elements of the music end up being
not literally sound effects, but

850
00:51:45,076 --> 00:51:48,876
practically sound effects from the
movie in the sense that they're like

851
00:51:48,876 --> 00:51:50,646
related to a specific thing happening.

852
00:51:51,036 --> 00:51:54,572
And especially once you get a mental.

853
00:51:54,672 --> 00:51:59,522
Vibe of that visual style and the feel
of it and all you start to be able to

854
00:51:59,522 --> 00:52:02,862
recreate a little bit of the scenes In
your head as you're listening to the

855
00:52:02,862 --> 00:52:06,482
music And going back and remembering
sort of what was happening during

856
00:52:06,482 --> 00:52:12,952
it and it fits astonishingly well
Sometimes when my brain will not calm

857
00:52:12,952 --> 00:52:19,532
down I will listen to something Like
bass and dumb uh, like Seinfeld without

858
00:52:19,552 --> 00:52:24,682
actually watching it and only listening
to the audio in my headphone to sort

859
00:52:24,682 --> 00:52:28,249
of like Bring me all the way back down
and just sort of like, I don't know.

860
00:52:28,249 --> 00:52:31,299
Sometimes it's like resetting, cause
I get a little bit confused, but

861
00:52:31,299 --> 00:52:32,829
I'm, I'm listening to something dumb.

862
00:52:33,136 --> 00:52:33,566
That was cool.

863
00:52:33,566 --> 00:52:37,416
I feel like I just disclosed something
embarrassing and weird about myself

864
00:52:37,629 --> 00:52:42,009
uh, and then forgot what it was worth
saying all that for to begin with.

865
00:52:42,149 --> 00:52:44,139
So I've just ended up saying a thing,

866
00:52:44,349 --> 00:52:48,549
Kyle: podcasts just like
worse versions of Seinfeld?

867
00:52:49,249 --> 00:52:49,999
Anyway.

868
00:52:50,539 --> 00:52:54,399
All podcasts are the podcasts about
nothing brought to you by Bluetooth

869
00:52:57,032 --> 00:53:02,479
One thing that I noticed though, I love
that point about really present versus

870
00:53:02,479 --> 00:53:07,599
passive Almost like saying a thing
versus texturizing a thing in the film.

871
00:53:08,049 --> 00:53:11,119
I felt that too One thing that I
thought was interesting is like when

872
00:53:11,119 --> 00:53:14,250
you listen to the record divorce of
the context of the film or whatever.

873
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:19,400
Very little of it is what feels like
a score to me, thinking about like

874
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,473
a Hans Zimmer type of thing, right?

875
00:53:22,473 --> 00:53:26,578
Where it is all sort of atmospheric and
around the action and world building.

876
00:53:26,728 --> 00:53:30,108
So it's the ambient stuff where you're
like, Oh, this feels like a film

877
00:53:30,108 --> 00:53:31,991
score that really stands out to me.

878
00:53:32,001 --> 00:53:38,541
Like robot attack is a great example,
or even striptease, which is ethereal,

879
00:53:38,541 --> 00:53:43,255
but they're still like very subtly
played distinctive rhythm, but it's more

880
00:53:43,255 --> 00:53:45,455
noticeable when it does pull back to me.

881
00:53:45,815 --> 00:53:49,405
But then that got me thinking, Oh, I
want to go watch a bunch of other movies.

882
00:53:49,505 --> 00:53:54,365
That I thought the sound was cool or
mentally filed away just to see what

883
00:53:54,385 --> 00:54:00,695
percentage of it feels like it's helping
drive the action versus it's just texture,

884
00:54:01,125 --> 00:54:04,605
or I love that phrase that came up when
we talked about Portishead all those years

885
00:54:04,605 --> 00:54:06,845
ago, you know, the air around the thing.

886
00:54:06,945 --> 00:54:11,388
So that is sort of its own exercises,
like go back to your top 10 or 15

887
00:54:11,398 --> 00:54:17,916
favorite films or look on the IMDb lists
people have generated for, films with

888
00:54:17,926 --> 00:54:23,503
the best soundtracks or best scores
and do that exercise of like what

889
00:54:23,603 --> 00:54:28,413
Functionally, the scorer is doing to
your senses at any given moment because

890
00:54:28,513 --> 00:54:32,177
I'm too engrossed the narrative and
the visuals typically when I watch a

891
00:54:32,177 --> 00:54:34,047
film to think about that dimension.

892
00:54:34,147 --> 00:54:37,797
And that's like a whole new way
to experience film for me now.

893
00:54:37,897 --> 00:54:42,847
Which is crazy as like a huge music
fan who's had a music podcast for years

894
00:54:42,947 --> 00:54:44,924
to admit that I don't really do that.

895
00:54:44,924 --> 00:54:47,814
I can think of all the moments
where there's like pop music sync.

896
00:54:47,914 --> 00:54:51,064
But score, again, is in a
different category for me.

897
00:54:51,094 --> 00:54:55,594
So I'm excited to go back and do a bunch
of that in the weeks and months to come.

898
00:54:55,694 --> 00:54:59,547
Cliff: Yeah, to your point uh, the point
of my, uh, listening to Seinfeld without

899
00:54:59,547 --> 00:55:03,051
the screen on thing was exactly kind
of what you were just mentioning, that

900
00:55:03,181 --> 00:55:08,121
because of the intensity isn't the right
word, but the visuals are very particular,

901
00:55:08,261 --> 00:55:14,301
sometimes that can be a lot to experience,
and the movie's relatively heavy itself.

902
00:55:14,661 --> 00:55:20,441
Being able to have another sort of milder
form of experiencing it is I think what

903
00:55:20,441 --> 00:55:24,851
can happen once you've watched the movie
Just once or twice maybe and then you've

904
00:55:24,851 --> 00:55:28,771
gotten familiar with the music And now
you're able to just use that music to

905
00:55:28,771 --> 00:55:35,531
kind of call back to memory some less
brain energizing visuals That represent

906
00:55:35,551 --> 00:55:40,951
what's happening without getting quite so
caught up in some of those moments because

907
00:55:40,951 --> 00:55:44,174
like of them will swallow you whole.

908
00:55:44,424 --> 00:55:45,014
Kyle: For sure.

909
00:55:45,144 --> 00:55:49,884
And I think, divorcing it from the visuals
works so well with this particular piece

910
00:55:49,884 --> 00:55:52,686
of music because of a quote that I found.

911
00:55:53,006 --> 00:55:54,296
uh, that really resonated.

912
00:55:54,352 --> 00:55:57,282
It said, this album feels
curiously unmoored from.

913
00:55:57,376 --> 00:55:58,709
It's time and place.

914
00:55:58,782 --> 00:56:02,656
While the opening guitars and bass of
Dehumanization are transportative to

915
00:56:02,656 --> 00:56:07,346
Europe's 1973 experimental rock scene,
rubbing shoulders with Cannes, Future

916
00:56:07,346 --> 00:56:11,696
Days, and Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the
Moon, in moments like the baroque pastiche

917
00:56:11,716 --> 00:56:16,646
Concealed Drags, The Drag Council, the
score hurtles centuries into the past.

918
00:56:16,716 --> 00:56:20,836
Gorger's orchestral instrumentation
suspends everything in a state of

919
00:56:20,836 --> 00:56:24,856
temporal ambiguity, while his constant
jerking between aesthetics, there's

920
00:56:24,856 --> 00:56:29,266
that word aesthetic again, means even
acutely contemporary sounds, like the

921
00:56:29,266 --> 00:56:35,296
Black Sabbath esque drums on Ter and
Midor, feel like brief stops in 1973

922
00:56:35,306 --> 00:56:37,036
rather than grounding us for good.

923
00:56:37,136 --> 00:56:43,230
So it, the mix of sounds play with a
sense of time and, terrain, uh, which

924
00:56:43,230 --> 00:56:45,647
is, I think, exactly what the film good
example of what reality is intended to

925
00:56:45,647 --> 00:56:47,657
do It's clear that it's an allegory.

926
00:56:47,657 --> 00:56:51,377
There are things that you recognize
but it is fantastic as well.

927
00:56:51,740 --> 00:56:53,040
Cliff: So enough with the teasing.

928
00:56:53,130 --> 00:56:55,680
This all makes it really
good for hip hop sampling.

929
00:56:56,000 --> 00:57:00,450
So real fast, for the uninitiated,
let me just go ahead and give you

930
00:57:00,460 --> 00:57:03,420
the quick summary to get you excited.

931
00:57:03,470 --> 00:57:07,825
Because if you like hip hop at all,
this will be an interesting bit for

932
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,640
Kyle: Remember guy Atlanta that
used to be like, you like hip hop?

933
00:57:11,950 --> 00:57:12,750
Little Five.

934
00:57:12,805 --> 00:57:14,880
Cliff: burned a lot of CDRs.

935
00:57:14,930 --> 00:57:16,270
Kyle: haven't thought
about that guy in a while.

936
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:17,320
I hope he's doing well.

937
00:57:20,737 --> 00:57:21,027
He sure

938
00:57:21,067 --> 00:57:22,787
Cliff: A lot of CD Rs man.

939
00:57:22,937 --> 00:57:27,754
I did try to like hip hop once or twice,
but anyway People you may know who have

940
00:57:27,754 --> 00:57:33,134
sampled off of this album alone Not
just the artists in general not related

941
00:57:33,134 --> 00:57:37,994
things just literally this album Mac
Miller, Run the Jewels, Flying Lotus,

942
00:57:37,994 --> 00:57:44,420
Denzel Curry, Madlib, VIC, Lil Sims,
probably more than that, but that's

943
00:57:44,420 --> 00:57:49,800
just the easy group to grab off the
top of people who grab all this stuff.

944
00:57:49,820 --> 00:57:52,887
Also uh, is sampled on KRS One tracks.

945
00:57:53,387 --> 00:58:01,340
J Dilla mixed it in on some beat tape
stuff like It's so good It's so good

946
00:58:01,350 --> 00:58:05,870
in a completely different vein than you
expect it to be good If you came into

947
00:58:05,870 --> 00:58:11,650
this record totally blind and didn't know
that it became like a crate diggers jewel

948
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:17,354
going forward But it is and it seems
to have started with Madlib Uh with the

949
00:58:17,354 --> 00:58:22,154
track come on feet, which I like a lot
Also, I just want to say really directly

950
00:58:22,164 --> 00:58:25,494
because we're all adults here I feel
like that phrase might mean something

951
00:58:25,494 --> 00:58:30,124
different in 2023 that probably was not
necessarily intended At the time where

952
00:58:30,124 --> 00:58:33,794
that track name was written, so i'm just
going to say that and move on from it

953
00:58:33,794 --> 00:58:35,394
But I just want to make it really clear.

954
00:58:35,394 --> 00:58:38,003
I don't think there's anything
weird about that song but And

955
00:58:38,003 --> 00:58:39,003
in fact, it's really funny.

956
00:58:39,103 --> 00:58:44,083
Kyle: This instance of Cliff's Intrusive
Thoughts brought to you by Therapy.

957
00:58:44,183 --> 00:58:46,673
However much you're getting, get more.

958
00:58:46,773 --> 00:58:48,603
Now back to your scheduled program.

959
00:58:48,703 --> 00:58:51,983
Cliff: Forever haunted by the idea
that I'll forget a caveat one day.

960
00:58:52,083 --> 00:58:53,053
Kyle: My brain was in the pool!

961
00:58:56,557 --> 00:58:57,057
Cliff: Yes,

962
00:58:57,424 --> 00:59:00,484
Kyle: My audio probably clipped
there again, but it was worth it.

963
00:59:00,584 --> 00:59:04,317
We're not gonna call it clipping, we're
gonna call it castanzing from now on.

964
00:59:04,417 --> 00:59:08,977
Cliff: My fear is that I'm George Costanza
when the truth is I'm probably Kramer

965
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,560
But so that track come on feet, right?

966
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:19,730
Like it had not only a sample from
tenant Tua it had a drum beat from

967
00:59:19,730 --> 00:59:23,270
little feet in it, like the band
little feet, which is awesome.

968
00:59:23,420 --> 00:59:27,360
Uh, And then snippets from a
blaxploitation movie by Melvin

969
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:29,340
van Peebles, sweet backs.

970
00:59:29,540 --> 00:59:33,080
Badass song has a lot of S's in it.

971
00:59:33,350 --> 00:59:34,540
So I did my best with it.

972
00:59:34,900 --> 00:59:35,340
But.

973
00:59:35,470 --> 00:59:38,310
Kyle: Cliff Seal, famously
a Blaxploitation fan.

974
00:59:38,410 --> 00:59:40,790
Cliff: I'm just trying to read
the sentences together, my man.

975
00:59:41,220 --> 00:59:48,014
But yeah, it's a really fun track it
immediately like I understand why that

976
00:59:48,024 --> 00:59:52,074
track would be listed as sort of the
catalyst for everything else starting to

977
00:59:52,074 --> 00:59:56,724
sample it more and more heavily because
it immediately captures why it works.

978
00:59:56,944 --> 00:59:57,904
It sounds.

979
00:59:57,978 --> 01:00:02,305
Right As the right vibe and what's
continued to be interesting, which

980
01:00:02,305 --> 01:00:07,885
I'd love to hear more from you about
to is like The samples here seem to

981
01:00:07,895 --> 01:00:13,485
have really like seamlessly gone from
being totally fine with like boom bap

982
01:00:13,955 --> 01:00:18,865
to more modern forms of production
and hip hop now like all of it works.

983
01:00:19,221 --> 01:00:22,371
It works if you just throw a really
simple beat on top of the rhythm

984
01:00:22,371 --> 01:00:23,611
section that was already there.

985
01:00:23,881 --> 01:00:25,861
It also works in like.

986
01:00:26,096 --> 01:00:29,926
When Run the Jewels samples the
bracelet they're just shifting we

987
01:00:29,926 --> 01:00:34,486
talked about shifting and re sequencing
rhythms they just shift their downbeat

988
01:00:34,526 --> 01:00:38,646
around on that sample, and it works
for the whole rest of the song.

989
01:00:38,856 --> 01:00:40,556
And somehow sounds like LP!

990
01:00:40,656 --> 01:00:43,446
A very particular production style,
even though he's grabbing something

991
01:00:43,446 --> 01:00:45,216
from this, which has its own lineage.

992
01:00:45,366 --> 01:00:49,626
It's really cool how much life this
thing has gotten in the hip hop scene.

993
01:00:49,961 --> 01:00:55,871
Kyle: well, and if you think about the
list of artists that you name, they

994
01:00:55,871 --> 01:01:01,311
cut across a lot of time in hip hop
and very different sort of context

995
01:01:01,381 --> 01:01:06,322
and scenes, which speaks also to the
elasticity of the source material.

996
01:01:06,612 --> 01:01:07,242
And you're right.

997
01:01:07,292 --> 01:01:12,602
It is used for In pretty profoundly
different ways large swaths of sound

998
01:01:12,612 --> 01:01:17,636
from the record all the way down to
little Dilla esque fragments, and by

999
01:01:17,636 --> 01:01:22,788
like, Pretty different MCs, like Big
Pun is very different than KRS One,

1000
01:01:22,888 --> 01:01:26,828
is very different than Little Sims,
is very different than Mac Miller.

1001
01:01:27,278 --> 01:01:30,898
So just having like a spiritual through
line between all of those artists who love

1002
01:01:30,918 --> 01:01:35,828
the form but express it very differently,
it makes it, all the more potent to me.

1003
01:01:35,928 --> 01:01:39,055
Also, I'm glad to have a
Madlib celebration moment.

1004
01:01:39,159 --> 01:01:41,809
if we had started the podcast earlier
in the year, it probably would

1005
01:01:41,809 --> 01:01:46,169
have made a lot of sense in March
to talk about Madvillainy on its

1006
01:01:46,169 --> 01:01:51,726
20th anniversary and how it was a
relatively obscure gem like this record.

1007
01:01:51,726 --> 01:01:56,894
And if you know, you know, type thing
with Madlib and Doom, and now it's

1008
01:01:56,894 --> 01:01:59,204
in the multiple millions of streams.

1009
01:01:59,222 --> 01:02:01,656
Category in the past five years alone.

1010
01:02:01,656 --> 01:02:04,716
And like, it's like a hockey
stick trajectory year over year.

1011
01:02:04,716 --> 01:02:07,486
So 20 years of mad villainy.

1012
01:02:07,516 --> 01:02:12,866
It's a good time to just appreciate
Madlib and, the craft of sampling.

1013
01:02:12,866 --> 01:02:17,216
We've talked about Dilla a great deal,
but like Madlib should be appreciated.

1014
01:02:17,586 --> 01:02:18,756
Pretty deeply as well.

1015
01:02:18,856 --> 01:02:25,020
and just the, the mirror anthropology
of taking like very different things and

1016
01:02:25,020 --> 01:02:27,360
sewing them together into a new quilt.

1017
01:02:27,460 --> 01:02:33,800
So like French sci fi soundtrack
with country ass little feet with

1018
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:38,486
blaxploitation film, turning it into a
new thing and like  anthropologically

1019
01:02:38,599 --> 01:02:40,569
what those layers say together.

1020
01:02:40,669 --> 01:02:44,289
That's what makes sampling really
exciting to me, but you have

1021
01:02:44,289 --> 01:02:45,929
to have something that like.

1022
01:02:46,029 --> 01:02:49,735
Is a canvas that you can impress
a lot upon, which is what the

1023
01:02:49,735 --> 01:02:52,281
fantastic planet score does as well.

1024
01:02:52,539 --> 01:02:55,669
Lots of really exciting stuff with
all of these, but the Madlib one

1025
01:02:55,669 --> 01:02:57,259
is particularly exciting to me.

1026
01:02:57,639 --> 01:03:03,089
And then you mentioned Flylo and
Denzel's sample, but we'd be remiss

1027
01:03:03,089 --> 01:03:05,009
if we didn't also mention that Flylo.

1028
01:03:05,109 --> 01:03:11,198
was like directly organically inspired
by this album and film for "You're

1029
01:03:11,218 --> 01:03:16,634
Dead", which also touches on a lot of
the same cosmic socio cultural types of

1030
01:03:16,634 --> 01:03:21,604
themes and ideas of death and rebirth and
coexistence and our place in the universe.

1031
01:03:21,704 --> 01:03:24,644
And in the New York Times interview
where they were like what inspired this

1032
01:03:24,644 --> 01:03:26,811
he he was like, This film straight up.

1033
01:03:27,171 --> 01:03:29,061
There's a handful of
things, but like this film.

1034
01:03:29,416 --> 01:03:32,978
Very much so take this all the way
back out in addition to sampling

1035
01:03:33,003 --> 01:03:36,656
to brain feeder you know, what they
represent as the like peak of the

1036
01:03:36,656 --> 01:03:40,616
intersection between the layers
of jazz and hip hop as they exist.

1037
01:03:40,636 --> 01:03:45,212
So that's fly low thundercat,
especially in other cats in that orbit.

1038
01:03:45,312 --> 01:03:51,129
Cliff: So the last thing we like to do In
terms of those ten pull exercises Is think

1039
01:03:51,129 --> 01:03:57,056
about what to listen to next or sort of
what to do next If this one got you like

1040
01:03:57,106 --> 01:04:01,846
our sincere hope is that every album we
introduced to you if it hadn't already

1041
01:04:02,061 --> 01:04:06,181
Gotten you that it got you during the
process of listening to it or listening

1042
01:04:06,181 --> 01:04:11,591
to our dumb asses Talk about this record
and how great it is but there's a moment

1043
01:04:11,691 --> 01:04:14,821
and I think it's probably different for
everybody But like you know what it feels

1044
01:04:14,821 --> 01:04:18,681
like you know what it feels like when you
hear something and you go that's it Yep

1045
01:04:19,374 --> 01:04:23,747
So when those moments hit Whether it's
in that moment or whether it's sort of

1046
01:04:23,747 --> 01:04:28,497
later when you come back to it or you want
something that feels that way We try to

1047
01:04:28,497 --> 01:04:33,087
give you some things to explore and go
further in Because just clicking around

1048
01:04:33,087 --> 01:04:39,377
Spotify's related artists tab is not gonna
do it for you in most cases and certainly

1049
01:04:39,378 --> 01:04:45,643
not and even algorithmic playlists are not
going to know really what to do with this.

1050
01:04:45,923 --> 01:04:51,093
It is too far afield in too many
categories to be I'll use this word

1051
01:04:51,093 --> 01:04:55,753
loosely, but correctly associated with
other things that would match the vibe.

1052
01:04:56,223 --> 01:04:59,873
Cause I would sooner put this
beside Clam's Casino than I

1053
01:04:59,873 --> 01:05:02,283
would beside other French jazz.

1054
01:05:02,488 --> 01:05:03,948
More than likely, but

1055
01:05:04,333 --> 01:05:04,913
Kyle: I'm pulling up.

1056
01:05:04,913 --> 01:05:08,783
I really am curious to see
what the related artists are.

1057
01:05:09,219 --> 01:05:09,849
Alan.

1058
01:05:09,969 --> 01:05:12,639
'cause I, that didn't even
strike me until this moment.

1059
01:05:12,739 --> 01:05:13,549
Let's see.

1060
01:05:13,649 --> 01:05:17,959
Cliff: Hopefully it'll list search
because that's one of the main areas.

1061
01:05:17,959 --> 01:05:21,249
We want to encourage people to go explore.

1062
01:05:21,384 --> 01:05:23,724
Kyle: Not on the list, bro.

1063
01:05:23,724 --> 01:05:25,224
Not on the list.

1064
01:05:25,494 --> 01:05:29,514
Raymond Scott of powerhouse
fame is on the list.

1065
01:05:31,291 --> 01:05:31,961
Cliff: doing great.

1066
01:05:32,401 --> 01:05:36,001
Kyle: some French and
Italian score work on here.

1067
01:05:36,001 --> 01:05:40,571
Bruno Nikolai, experimental
artist, Basel Kerin on here.

1068
01:05:41,018 --> 01:05:43,908
Jean Claude Vanier on here.

1069
01:05:44,008 --> 01:05:45,068
Very interesting.

1070
01:05:45,118 --> 01:05:45,428
Yeah.

1071
01:05:45,471 --> 01:05:48,971
The related artists list does
not do it for you, spiritually

1072
01:05:48,971 --> 01:05:49,981
speaking, in this case.

1073
01:05:50,458 --> 01:05:51,738
Cliff: Spiritually speaking.

1074
01:05:51,738 --> 01:05:52,498
Thank you for that.

1075
01:05:52,598 --> 01:05:53,628
Kyle: So where do you go?

1076
01:05:53,794 --> 01:05:56,384
Cliff: Well, So one thing you called
out, which I think is great, but

1077
01:05:56,394 --> 01:05:58,534
not always for the faint of heart.

1078
01:05:58,634 --> 01:06:04,254
Yes, this is French jazz, which is a
reminder that non American jazz exists.

1079
01:06:04,471 --> 01:06:05,581
And even though,

1080
01:06:05,736 --> 01:06:07,846
Kyle: you know there are
country, not America?

1081
01:06:08,196 --> 01:06:08,916
Cliff: it's rude,

1082
01:06:09,351 --> 01:06:13,061
Kyle: For four are to have
landmass other than this one.

1083
01:06:13,161 --> 01:06:13,531
Cliff: right?

1084
01:06:13,631 --> 01:06:16,961
If you're going to be in another country,
be like Canada or Mexico where you're

1085
01:06:16,971 --> 01:06:19,331
touching us at all times so that we to.

1086
01:06:19,431 --> 01:06:20,631
Kyle: Or we'll bomb you!

1087
01:06:20,731 --> 01:06:22,041
Don't go too far!

1088
01:06:23,164 --> 01:06:29,624
Cliff: So, Not for the faint of heart,
but yes foreign composers, jazz artists,

1089
01:06:29,904 --> 01:06:35,414
et cetera, and especially during
the sixties and seventies uh, when

1090
01:06:35,414 --> 01:06:40,561
jazz was doing all of the very weird
things that jazz was doing, including

1091
01:06:40,571 --> 01:06:44,951
effectively being far broader than
the jazz that we talk about today.

1092
01:06:45,421 --> 01:06:47,751
So there's a million things to explore.

1093
01:06:48,121 --> 01:06:53,701
There are countless, and I'm not even
being sarcastic here, just like countless

1094
01:06:53,711 --> 01:07:01,381
artists from France, Belgium, Greece
that worked with Surge, Gainsbourg, or

1095
01:07:01,611 --> 01:07:06,504
or that Alon worked with or composed
for just sort of like going down those

1096
01:07:06,514 --> 01:07:11,824
branches of who did they work with uh,
and were they important and why we'll

1097
01:07:11,854 --> 01:07:16,072
unveil some interesting things to you
that we'd otherwise never really be

1098
01:07:16,072 --> 01:07:21,836
exposed to, coming from an, uh, America
centric purview on some of this.

1099
01:07:22,176 --> 01:07:22,706
Kyle: Agreed.

1100
01:07:22,716 --> 01:07:24,116
Two things on that.

1101
01:07:24,216 --> 01:07:27,886
One, you know, I mentioned earlier
in the episode, clicking into some

1102
01:07:27,886 --> 01:07:29,216
of those names he worked with.

1103
01:07:29,316 --> 01:07:33,286
One was Salvatore Adamo,
who's a Belgian artist.

1104
01:07:33,386 --> 01:07:34,196
And

1105
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:35,360
Cliff: Sold a few records.

1106
01:07:35,510 --> 01:07:39,730
Kyle: the top of his wiki, it says
by 1964, Adama was the world's best

1107
01:07:39,740 --> 01:07:41,760
selling artists behind the Beatles.

1108
01:07:41,860 --> 01:07:46,204
And through his career, he sold more than
million 80 million eight zero million

1109
01:07:46,204 --> 01:07:49,064
albums and 20 million singles worldwide.

1110
01:07:49,107 --> 01:07:52,327
One of Belgium's all
time top selling artists.

1111
01:07:52,427 --> 01:07:56,077
And here, if you're like me, all
you knew about was the waffles.

1112
01:07:56,664 --> 01:08:00,484
A reference point that is a
little closer to home though.

1113
01:08:00,969 --> 01:08:06,029
Especially if you're a hip hop fan is
David Axelrod famously sampled by Dr.

1114
01:08:06,029 --> 01:08:09,799
Dre for the next episode and sampled
a gazillion times throughout the

1115
01:08:09,799 --> 01:08:15,779
course of his discography, but what
I think is cool about Alain and Serge

1116
01:08:15,789 --> 01:08:20,914
Gainsbourg, David Axelrod has the
same cool that makes it inherently

1117
01:08:20,914 --> 01:08:25,724
samplable aesthetically, energetically,
in addition to the sound of the music.

1118
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:30,230
Also if you're into the like most
recent Arctic Monkeys stuff or the

1119
01:08:30,230 --> 01:08:34,587
general character Alex Turner is
trying to play in the world, that

1120
01:08:34,587 --> 01:08:39,117
all comes straight from the French
jazz pop stuff, Serge Gainsbourg, to

1121
01:08:39,117 --> 01:08:43,309
the extent that they play it on the
front of house before their shows now.

1122
01:08:43,339 --> 01:08:48,218
So if you want the long cigarette cool,
go push further in that direction.

1123
01:08:48,801 --> 01:08:53,061
jazz pop, especially like you said,
in the late sixties, early seventies,

1124
01:08:53,071 --> 01:08:54,981
when it was heavily influenced by funk.

1125
01:08:55,081 --> 01:08:59,375
And the sort of like globalization of
cinema and that sort of thing we're like

1126
01:08:59,375 --> 01:09:01,195
cultures were starting to mash a little.

1127
01:09:01,295 --> 01:09:01,985
Cliff: Another angle?

1128
01:09:02,085 --> 01:09:03,795
Certainly trip hop, for sure.

1129
01:09:03,895 --> 01:09:05,385
There's a lot we could say here.

1130
01:09:05,505 --> 01:09:10,545
Uh, One highlight I would give when
we, let's see, we are of the very

1131
01:09:10,545 --> 01:09:14,895
particular part of our generation
where we effectively did crate

1132
01:09:14,905 --> 01:09:20,278
digging through MP3s in middle school,
high school, early college, right?

1133
01:09:20,278 --> 01:09:23,828
To the point that we were, you know,
doing the big hard drive swapping

1134
01:09:23,828 --> 01:09:25,698
and we had hundreds of gigs of music.

1135
01:09:25,748 --> 01:09:25,998
Okay.

1136
01:09:25,998 --> 01:09:29,628
We, I don't just mean we were randomly
downloading things on Napster.

1137
01:09:29,628 --> 01:09:33,075
I mean, we were trying to build a
music collection it was impossible to

1138
01:09:33,085 --> 01:09:37,215
imagine the idea of being able to stream
virtually everything endlessly one day.

1139
01:09:37,645 --> 01:09:42,215
And through doing that, you know, I came
across stuff like handsome boy modeling

1140
01:09:42,215 --> 01:09:46,055
school and just other stuff that has.

1141
01:09:46,155 --> 01:09:52,218
A cool factor to it uh, a real solid
vibe and it just feels confident,

1142
01:09:52,318 --> 01:09:57,668
is the sort of family of stuff that
ended up sampling a lot of things

1143
01:09:57,668 --> 01:09:59,808
that feel vibe related to this here.

1144
01:09:59,958 --> 01:10:02,808
I just, it's always a good time
to go down some of those rabbit

1145
01:10:02,818 --> 01:10:04,178
holes if you haven't in a while.

1146
01:10:04,278 --> 01:10:06,828
They just feel good and it's always to me.

1147
01:10:06,828 --> 01:10:09,658
That's always a fun musical journey
to go on anyway, because if you need

1148
01:10:09,658 --> 01:10:13,418
to shift back to like doing something
other than actively thinking about

1149
01:10:13,418 --> 01:10:16,768
music, you can make that work pretty
quick without changing too much.

1150
01:10:16,868 --> 01:10:19,728
Kyle: Trip hop is such a cool example.

1151
01:10:19,938 --> 01:10:22,408
Handsome boy modeling school is
such a cool example, like not

1152
01:10:22,408 --> 01:10:27,358
exactly trip hop, but I get with
like suit music of nineties.

1153
01:10:27,378 --> 01:10:27,768
Yeah.

1154
01:10:28,465 --> 01:10:31,815
Portishead dummy is obviously the best.

1155
01:10:31,815 --> 01:10:34,855
They were going for spy film vibe on that.

1156
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:38,460
And they made that short
film, to kill a dead man.

1157
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:43,990
So very much spiritually in the lineage
of, 60s British spy films and then

1158
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:47,330
this sort of con evocative atmosphere.

1159
01:10:47,430 --> 01:10:53,070
Cliff: While we are reaching for
tangents and rabbit holes, I'd also say.

1160
01:10:53,170 --> 01:10:59,030
Even stepping away a little bit from the
music, but if the veneer of psychedelia

1161
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:04,560
and the willingness to talk about, some
of the most deeply consequential concepts

1162
01:11:04,570 --> 01:11:11,150
on earth via animation uh, if that is
your vibe, first of all, let's hang out.

1163
01:11:11,250 --> 01:11:15,230
And second of all, you might want to
consider things like Midnight Gospel

1164
01:11:15,470 --> 01:11:22,343
on which is, yeah, inherently not
musical, but it has a similar approach

1165
01:11:22,393 --> 01:11:29,503
to, we are going to layer psychedelic
visuals on top of a sort previously

1166
01:11:29,553 --> 01:11:34,583
unrelated thing in order to augment
that experience for you and draw

1167
01:11:34,583 --> 01:11:36,213
something really different out of it.

1168
01:11:36,213 --> 01:11:40,057
I mean, Yeah, I can assure you
that you would feel differently.

1169
01:11:40,077 --> 01:11:46,471
Just hearing midnight gospel episodes
as the origin podcast episodes that they

1170
01:11:46,471 --> 01:11:51,271
are, as opposed to watching them as an
actual kind of film that's developing

1171
01:11:51,271 --> 01:11:52,841
that thought through something different.

1172
01:11:53,097 --> 01:11:57,767
I'm fairly convinced that's not a
comfortable exercise for everyone, but

1173
01:11:57,767 --> 01:12:01,257
I think it is for some people and if
you're one of those folks who feel,

1174
01:12:01,307 --> 01:12:05,397
comfortable kind of indulging in that
and letting your brain swim around

1175
01:12:05,407 --> 01:12:11,337
in all of those colors, then Midnight
Gospel and some other similar psychedelic

1176
01:12:11,337 --> 01:12:13,587
animation films may be for you.

1177
01:12:13,687 --> 01:12:17,467
Kyle: Midnight Gospel
is an amazing example.

1178
01:12:17,641 --> 01:12:21,771
two grown men texting about
how a cartoon made him cry.

1179
01:12:22,221 --> 01:12:25,971
one finale with Duncan Trussell
and his mom, wasn't it?

1180
01:12:26,071 --> 01:12:31,256
Midnight Gospel is so good because
it exists in the animation pulls

1181
01:12:31,276 --> 01:12:37,396
emotionally in my mind between Bluey, the
sleepy time episode of Bluey, which is

1182
01:12:37,396 --> 01:12:39,866
beautiful and made me as a father cry.

1183
01:12:39,876 --> 01:12:44,832
It was like the first time after I became
a dad, I realized like, Oh, I'm, I'm

1184
01:12:44,832 --> 01:12:46,682
not a person who doesn't cry anymore.

1185
01:12:47,522 --> 01:12:49,362
But there's like such a warmth in that.

1186
01:12:49,827 --> 01:12:53,417
And then on the other end is Rick
and Morty that has all that same

1187
01:12:53,417 --> 01:13:00,071
sort of cosmic whatever collision
and uh, is very cold and cynical.

1188
01:13:00,171 --> 01:13:03,041
Or is trying to be, you know, wants to be.

1189
01:13:03,041 --> 01:13:06,141
Midnight Gospel is a
hearty mix of the two.

1190
01:13:06,561 --> 01:13:09,107
It sits more in the
Carlin place between them.

1191
01:13:09,207 --> 01:13:12,917
It's like, I have seen it all and I
accept it all because I have no choice.

1192
01:13:13,017 --> 01:13:17,917
And I feel like the film Fantastic
Planet sort of arrives in that

1193
01:13:17,917 --> 01:13:19,307
place spiritually as well.

1194
01:13:19,307 --> 01:13:21,417
So totally agree on Midnight Gospel.

1195
01:13:21,517 --> 01:13:25,851
I also think that the beauty in the
simple and just like sort of fumbling

1196
01:13:25,851 --> 01:13:30,871
away toward appreciating being here
also exists in the world of Miyazaki

1197
01:13:30,871 --> 01:13:34,151
films a lot, which I am super late to.

1198
01:13:34,251 --> 01:13:37,191
My wife tried to get me to watch
them for years and years when we were

1199
01:13:37,191 --> 01:13:39,901
dating and only started very recently.

1200
01:13:40,051 --> 01:13:45,121
the collision of fantasy to tell a
really grounded story about people and

1201
01:13:45,351 --> 01:13:47,581
love and all the feelings in between.

1202
01:13:47,681 --> 01:13:50,140
That's the bread and
butter of Miyazaki films.

1203
01:13:50,150 --> 01:13:52,460
So I think you can go there as well.

1204
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:57,082
I think about the music a lot less when I
watch Miyazaki films, but it's there too.

1205
01:13:57,502 --> 01:14:00,282
Cliff: Yeah, they're all going to be
different kind of extensions of whatever

1206
01:14:00,282 --> 01:14:04,472
catches you About this music or this
movie or the combination of them or

1207
01:14:04,482 --> 01:14:07,435
them in isolation, whatever These
are a bunch of different directions.

1208
01:14:07,435 --> 01:14:12,145
You can go in certainly exploring Animated
psychedelic films or japanese films.

1209
01:14:12,155 --> 01:14:16,445
It's going to be a pretty different
vibe than trying to explore belgian

1210
01:14:16,455 --> 01:14:20,690
jazz composers but Whichever one
strikes you at the moment, because for

1211
01:14:20,690 --> 01:14:23,853
real, it does feel like if you kind
of give yourself over to this music

1212
01:14:23,853 --> 01:14:27,723
or this film or both, you're gonna get
surprised how you feel about it anyway.

1213
01:14:28,093 --> 01:14:31,543
So you might as well just do it, pay
attention to it, and then see what

1214
01:14:31,543 --> 01:14:34,751
kind of felt good out of it, and
chase that rabbit a little bit more.

1215
01:14:34,961 --> 01:14:37,051
Um, It's just that it could
lead you in a bunch of different

1216
01:14:37,051 --> 01:14:39,219
directions across time and space.

1217
01:14:40,225 --> 01:14:41,055
Go to TuneDig.

1218
01:14:41,075 --> 01:14:43,495
com to learn more about
the album we just covered.

1219
01:14:43,755 --> 01:14:47,975
Follow us on Instagram and Twitter
for more information about the album,

1220
01:14:47,995 --> 01:14:52,135
including playlist links to interesting
articles, videos, maybe even some

1221
01:14:52,135 --> 01:14:53,605
stories that didn't make the episode.

1222
01:14:54,075 --> 01:14:58,075
Most importantly, and always,
please support your local record

1223
01:14:58,075 --> 01:15:02,365
store, concert venue, buy merch
from an indie band that you love.

1224
01:15:02,735 --> 01:15:03,495
Thanks for listening.